What kind of sins does a Pope confess?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Sherrie, Feb 3, 2003.

  1. Sherrie

    Sherrie
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    I was just wondering what kind of sins a Pope confesses he makes. And who does the Pope confess these sins to?

    And if the Pope sins...isn't it possible he might have made a bad choice, or rule, and thats what his sin is? Kind of spooky.

    Is it ok for a Catholic to say, boy that Pope sure did mess this one up? Or, curse that Pope! Or, boy I can't wait until we get a better Pope! Or maybe even, Who does that Pope think he is, God? Or who died and left him boss?

    Do you all ever think he messed around with any of those Nuns. Maybe not now, since he is old, but maybe earlier on in his road to Popehood.

    Sherrie

    [ February 03, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]
     
  2. Sherrie

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    I was also wondering do Catholics ever think the Pope says anything wrong, or do you just go on his say-so?

    Please add this question to the above questions.

    Sherrie
     
  3. Acts 1:8

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  4. Sherrie

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    Well then why is the Pope contradicting himself? In one statement the Pope is Infallible. But in the second breath, he is confessing his sins. Hmmmmmmm.....

    Sherrie
     
  5. GraceSaves

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    Sherrie and ABG,

    Honestly, I am going to state right here and now that you do not read our responses on this board. How could you possibly miss that infalliblity on matters of faith and morals for the universal church, and one's personal sins are not the same things? This has been discussed AT LENGTH...MANY TIMES...on this board. And yet you two just sit here pretending like you don't have a clue. I just don't get it. I dont' understand your motives at all.

    Grant
     
  6. GraceSaves

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    The pope is infallible in PROCLAIMING Catholic doctrine. If that is what you meant, then fine. If that is not what you meant, then you just posted a falsehood.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  7. GraceSaves

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    Since infallibility and impeccability are not the same thing, there is no contradiction.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  8. GraceSaves

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    Sure he does; just not when making a proclamation "ex cathedra," which Pope John Paul II has not even ever done, because he has not proclaimed any dogma.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  9. DanPC

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    "I was just wondering what kind of sins a Pope confesses he makes. And who does the Pope confess these sins to?"
    Some priest. I don't know who it is.

    "And if the Pope sins...isn't it possible he might have made a bad choice, or rule, and thats what his sin is? Kind of spooky."
    A sin does have to be something wrong. Making a choice that appeared to be good (Bishop Jones to become a Cardinal) could be poor judgment which is not usually a sin.

    "Do you all ever think he messed around with any of those Nuns?"
    Do you know anything at all about the personal life of the current Pope? SNAP is hardly an unbiased source of information.

    "I was also wondering do Catholics ever think the Pope says anything wrong, or do you just go on his say-so?"
    Sure he makes mistakes. He's appointed some bishops that turned out to be duds. But he knows a lot more than the average bear. Read an encyclical or Crossing the Threshold if you want to see how he thinks. You might disagree with his theology but he isn't a dummy.

    Infallible does not mean he doesn't sin. Infallible means he won't make a statement ex cathedra on faith or morals that is wrong. The Holy Spirit will protect him from error. As for not sinning--that is impeccability, something he does not have nor claim.
     
  10. Sherrie

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    Grant

    I am new to this topic so you will forgive me, right?

    http://www.reachingcatholics.org/eternal.html


    Quote form the article

    On matters of faith and morals for the universal church, Wouldn't this be a sin to give men false hope.

    Thank you
    Sherrie
     
  11. Daniel Vollmer

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    Hi Sherrie

    Can you give me an example here, where the Pope has shut off the Kingdom of Heaven. If the Pope truly believes that he is leading Catholics in the right direction then he is commiting no sin.

    Can you honestly look at this present Pope John Paul II and say he is not a Godly man. Its true, what we have had some Popes with serious human weaknesses but if you look through history these men never changed the dogma of the church. This dogma, this truth is what God is protecting. The fact that we know these truths have been protected from corruption is what has given us such freedom.

    God Bless You and may the Lord Keep You.

    Daniel
     
  12. show me

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    Hi Sherrie!

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Throughout history Roman Catholics pontiffs have shut off the kingdom of heaven from men by proclaiming their own way of salvation. These destructive heresies have sent millions to their graves with a false hope.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If this were true you would be right. However, I must agree with Daniel Vollmer, can you provide examples??

    I seriously would like to see accusations such as this substantiated. If proof exists, please present it.

    God bless you!
     
  13. Carson Weber

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    reachingcatholics.org

    Sometimes I wonder that if the Early Church had access to the Internet, the Gnostic sects would have set up this same website.

    It makes you wonder. ;)
     
  14. thessalonian

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    "On matters of faith and morals for the universal church, Wouldn't this be a sin to give men false hope."


    Sherrie, this question (if that is what it is) is completely incoherent to me. Could you please rephrase it. What do you think the hope of a Catholic is in. Have you ever heard a sermon or heard the Pope preach. I will tell you that he doesn't preach about the easter bunny. My suggestion to you is that you stop trying to act like an expert on Catholicism and actually pay attention to what we tell you. The Catholic Church is about Jesus Christ. Our sacrements are deeply rooted in Jesus Christ. The Mass is all about scirpture and Jesus Christ and the sacrifice he went through for us on Calvary. STop asking questions that only make you sound foolish to us Catholics. If you think we are headed for hell, I would think that you would want to understand what we really believe so that you can actually be of some assistance. I will tell you that when you make statements that have no bearing in fact on what we truly believe they do nothing to bring us closer to what you think is true. They just make you sound like a typical anti-catholic. Also most of those books and websites you have read about what Catholics believe and teach can be flushed. They are distortions.


    I see others have explained infallibility to you so I will step back from that issue and see if you are actually willing to listen and gain an understanding so that if we truly do need help from this "terrible, abmoniable" Church you can help us.

    Blessings
     
  15. Sherrie

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    stop trying to act like an expert on Catholicism

    Oh but I am not trying to. That is why I have asked you the question.

    What could the pope who has this superior connection to God, possibly do that was a sin? And the sins he does....doesn't that make you wonder what, and if they were those things that have brought you where you are today. What if he had purposely been calling the wrong shots, and was repenting of them, Wouldn't you be upset?

    Why isn't anyone but a catholic College in 1967 asking questions?

    If someone makes moral decisions for you, why aren't you questioning them? Yes, yes, I know they are decisions for a church. But you go to that church and you live by those rules. Why?

    And what is so wrong with wondering if the Pope is messing around with those nuns? He knew about all those other Bishops, and others in the church, messing around in the church, and did nothing about it. Oh yes, your right, he made up some more moral rules.

    Don't you ever want to say what is this Pope guy thinking? Or do you really think this guy is the next guy in line to be Christ?

    Listen to this even; heres an eye opener for you, he has no connections to those dead Apostles. Mary doesn't even hear him.

    If you have something to repent of; God gave His Son Jesus. Jesus died on the cross. Jesus shed His blood for us. Jesus sent His Holy Spirit. Jesus taught us how to pray to the Father. Jesus is our intercessor.


    Now I do not pretent to know everything, or anything about Catholics. So would you answer my questions. Then I might be enlightened by it.

    Sherrie
     
  16. 3AngelsMom

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    Sherrie,

    Not that it matters, but I am sure that the Pope has the same problems that every other man has had. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. If he is a man, he has had these temptations. Since he is not a sinless man, we know that at one point or another he intertained these temptations and needed to confess.

    Doubt could very well be something he would confess. Not doubt in God, but doubt that things are going to get better.

    Pride for sure. No person with that much power could evade the dangers of Pride. Look at David. Man after God's own heart, and he fell to pride.

    It's really not that hard to figure out what kinds of things he would confess, just look at his position and look at his character.

    He wouldn't be confessing stealing or adultery, or witchcraft. He would be like Moses or David, leaders who are so highly exalted above their subjects that they have problems with things that we wouldn't even think of.

    I know he doesn't suffer from selfishness, or greed. They give more money and services away than any other religious organization on the planet.

    In the long run, what really matters is that you pray for him, as you would any of the world leaders, and don't look to him for example, as he too is a sinner, but look to Christ, who is too, his ultimate example.

    God Bless.
     
  17. Clint Kritzer

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    Sherrie has a point, thessalonian. Rather than belittling and attacking the question, why don't you just answer it?

    Bear in mind that Sherrie has been on this site for 7 months with access to real, live, red-blooded Catholics so when you make the statement, "my suggestion to you is that you stop trying to act like an expert on Catholicism and actually pay attention to what we tell you," it is not Sherrie that sounds foolish.

     
  18. thessalonian

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    Sherrie,

    "Oh but I am not trying to. That is why I have asked you the question."

    Oh but you are. You see the problem is you don't care what our answers are, you reject them out of hand.

    "What could the pope who has this superior connection to God, possibly do that was a sin?

    **** Hmmm. This is a big red herring for you Sherrie. I am going to ask you to really concentrate on what I am about to say. We have the New Testament scriptures. They are the word of God correct. You would say they are infallible, I would say they are inerrant. There is a differnce but we can get in to that later. But from your infallible perspective here is the problem. The Apostle Peter has two books in that Bible. Are they the infallible word of God? I think you would say yes. Problem is he was still a sinner as we see in Galatians where he caters somewhat to the Jews and Paul opposes him to his face. Are you willing to throw those two books out over this? I hope not.

    But then you have a bigger problem. You see the Apostle Paul has more writings in the NT then any other of the sacred writers. Some of the Protesstant favorites (which I hold dear to my heart) Romans and Ephesians were written by him. There is a problem. If a man that is "in tune "with God such that he writes and speaks infallibly cannot sin such as you say, then what of this verse where Paul admits his sinfullness.

    Romans 7:19
    For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

    He says he does EVIL. He sins Sherrie. Are we going to throw out his books.

    Now you and I will both agree that there is no more scripture being written. But is infallible speach taught in the Bible. Jesus says to his disciples:

    Luke 10:16
    "The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

    So apparently there was infallible speach going on also with these sinful men. To say that the only things that were written were infallible is a rejection of this verse. Now is this Charism possible today? I would say yes. You would say no. But your arguement against it, that the Pope is a sinner and so he cannot speak infallibly, I think if you are honest you will have to agree, is flawed.*****


    And the sins he does....doesn't that make you wonder what, and if they were those things that have brought you where you are today. What if he had purposely been calling the wrong shots, and was repenting of them, Wouldn't you be upset?

    **** Let me let you in on a little secret sherrie. I am not tuned in to radio free vatican every day. I do not wait for the Papal blessing on the morning so that I can get out of bed and take a shower. I take my leadership from the Pope and the Church but test it well against scripture and tradition contrary to the ideas about me that have been pumped in to your mind. And in truth there are few Papal statements that are considered infallible. He is the final arbiter when there are disputes in the Church on critical issues of faith and morals. I do consider his wisdom when I hear him speak. ***


    Why isn't anyone but a catholic College in 1967 asking questions?

    *** I said last night to another poster, my fait is in Jesus Christ and that he guides his Church even when the leaders committ sins. So what questoins should I be asking? The Pope is a sinner. He goes to confession. That shows me he has a desire to root those sins, no matter how small or large they may be out of his life. In knowing Catholics who go to confession and those who don't I can tell you which group I would trust more and which show a more Christian spirit toward there fellow man. If you somehow think confessoin is not a soul searching experience that does not involve thoughts of repenting to God for our sins, you are sadly mistaken. Those who go to confession are not neccessarily bigger sinners but are more aware of their daily sins and the need to repent of them. ***

    If someone makes moral decisions for you, why aren't you questioning them? Yes, yes, I know they are decisions for a church. But you go to that church and you live by those rules. Why?


    *** Once again, I have to say I don't understand the question. Every single religious leader in the world is a sinner. That does not make all there decisions bad. Paul says in Hebrews:

    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

    There is no indication that he thinks these leaders are all sinless. There is much more scripture that I would like to go in to on this one but this post is going to be far to long. Check out Ez 33 if you get a chance. *****


    And what is so wrong with wondering if the Pope is messing around with those nuns? He knew about all those other Bishops, and others in the church, messing around in the church, and did nothing about it. Oh yes, your right, he made up some more moral rules.


    **** Well for one thing until I have hard eveidence it is simply gossip. That is a sin in our Church Sherrie. How about yours. ****

    Don't you ever want to say what is this Pope guy thinking? Or do you really think this guy is the next guy in line to be Christ?


    **** Well, I have read some of his works and heard him speak. I know he has alot better knowledge and understanding of Jesus Christ than anyone on this board. *****

    Listen to this even; heres an eye opener for you, he has no connections to those dead Apostles. Mary doesn't even hear him.

    **** Once again Sherrie. I need scripture. Where does it say that those in heaven do not hear those on earth. Scripture says we are "surrounded by a cloud of witnesses". In Luke's Gospel Jesus tells the apostles that they shall sit on thrones and judge nations in his kingdom (which in the book of revalations, chapter 8 I believe we see 24 elders sitting on thrones. This from my understanding is interpruted as the patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Isreal and the 12 Apostles). It also says there is great joy in heaven amongst the angels over one repentent sinner.

    Luke 15:10
    "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."


    How do they know of his true heartfelt repentence unless they hear it? We are told that we shall be like angels when we are in heaven so I see no reason to think that we will not experience this joy also. Your not given me alot of scripture Sherrie, Just regurgitating the same old lines I have heard from Protestants a hundred times. Let your mind rome a bit. Go beyond what you have been told about us Catholics and what we believe. I have added you to my prayer list.

    "If you have something to repent of; God gave His Son Jesus. Jesus died on the cross. Jesus shed His blood for us. Jesus sent His Holy Spirit. Jesus taught us how to pray to the Father. Jesus is our intercessor."

    Amen! Well said Sherrie. Very Catholic too. Though certainly we can interceed for eachother, would you not agree?

    Timothy 2:1-4
    First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
    for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
    This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


    But I hate to tell you thiAs but you have things that you do every day that you need to repent of. So do I. We are sinners. We however grow everday in our savior Jesus Christ, rooting out those sins that are still in us. Or at least I hope you do. The new Christian is not immediately sin free. He has to grow in holliness. ***


    Now I do not pretent to know everything, or anything about Catholics. So would you answer my questions. Then I might be enlightened by it.

    *** I hope I did. Ask some more if you like. God bless you Sherrie ***

    Sherrie
     
  19. BrianT

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    Sherrie,

    Maybe thoughts of pride. Maybe he struggles with coveting. Maybe lust. Who knows, and I don't understand why it matters. We all struggle with these things. If the Pope *didn't* go to confession, implying he was sinless, *then* I would be concerned.

    Brian
     
  20. BrianT

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    Just a thought: even Peter and the rest of the apostles, *who had direct contact with Christ*, sinned right in his presence, several times! Having a close relationship, even a "superior connection to God", does not mean we don't sin.
     

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