What KJVOs believe #2

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pastor_Bob, Dec 19, 2003.

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KJVOs preach only from the KJV

  1. I agree

    87.5%
  2. I disagree

    12.5%
  3. I'm not sure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    I would like for non-KJVO members to participate in this poll. I have said for a long time that the KJVO camp is misunderstood and misrepresented many times. This poll will give an idea of what you believe KJVO's believe.

    KJVO's, feel free to preview the poll, but please do not vote as it would make the final results inaccurate.
     
  2. Pastor_Bob

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    The following post was moved from the other thread:


    HankD
    2,000 Posts Club
    Member # 1012

    posted December 19, 2003 02:34 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because of the incredibility of their doctrines, I for one have documented from the books of their leaders what they believe (here on the BB). So it’s not a question of what I believe or think they believe but what I know they believe.

    HankD
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posts: 2859 | From: Washington State | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged |
     
  3. BrianT

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    I don't know how to do the poll, because I know that for most questions, the activity/belief listed describes some "KJVOs" but not others.
     
  4. aefting

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    I voted "Not Sure" if some KJVO's do but some don't.

    Andy
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    Then vote how the majority of KJVOs that you're aquainted with believe.
     
  6. HankD

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    There are several flavors of KJVO.

    I could take the time and find differing answers among them for each of these questions and document them but I won't.

    I documented (here on the BB) the worst and epitomizing error they preach (IMO) from one of their famous leaders books: that the English supercedes the Greek and Hebrew.

    This is all I need to know to engage with them concerning their error (although they keep changing the rules of engagement).

    HankD
     
  7. skanwmatos

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    Originally posted by HankD:
    I have no doubt you have a very broad knowledge of what some KJVOs may believe, but can you really say that everything you believe them to stand for is true of all, or even of some?
     
  8. skanwmatos

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    I now several KJVOs and none of them believes the English supersedes the Greek and Hebrew. Are you sure that is the defining characteristic of KJVOs?
     
  9. HankD

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    As I previously stated, for me it is the defining issue that I personally oppose. It is a symptom of the basic issue, that the 1611 English of the KJB is "inspired" and is the "perfectly" preserved Word(s) of God.

    Again there are many KJVO that are not actually KJVO when this element is brought into the definition.

    There is also the methodology of the double standard and smoke-screening which is a hallmark of their apologetics which marks them as well.

    HankD
     
  10. robycop3

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    I now several KJVOs and none of them believes the English supersedes the Greek and Hebrew. Are you sure that is the defining characteristic of KJVOs? </font>[/QUOTE]Not all KJVOs believe such nonsense, but several who post regularly here DO indicate such a belief in their posts. But I can't say for certain that they REALLY believe it or not. As KJVOs are well-known for creating distractions when attempting to cover up the lack of evidence to support their myth, I cannot dismiss that's what they've done on this board, as they seem too intelligent to believe a word of whar Dr. Ruckman says.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Jack Hyles shifted (when I knew him in 1968) from making FUN at the LUNATICS (his word) that were what is called KJVO today . . to a position fully endorsing it by a dozen years later.

    I "fuss" with some local onlies now and then, but use Hyles as a guru and spokesman for the movement.

    Hence, some of the answers that MOST onlies DON'T believe (I pray) - like a person has to be saved only using the KJV - was firmly believed and publically taught by Hyles.

    People might think him "extreme" in KJVO circles, but he is (short of Ruckman) the most well known.
     
  12. Pastor_Bob

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    I respect Dr. Hyles and the work that God allowed him to accomplish in his life time. I agree with many things that he believed. This issue is one of the few things that I would have a conflict with.

    I agree that is he very well-known in KJVO circles, but many in that circle do not consider him as a leader or even admit an association with him.
     
  13. HankD

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    So then this is an example of the very same extreme error that the Church of Rome made concerning the Latin Vulgate. There is magic in the words.

    For many centuries the Church of Rome taught that the mass must be said in Latin and that the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the VERY flesh and blood would not happen and that the sacrament had no saving grace unless the consecration of the host was executed in Latin.

    For instance The words "hoc est corpus meus" (which is where we get "Hocus-Pocus") were said over the bread and wine by the Priest of Rome and then the bread and wine no longer existed but the mere "accidents" of the bread and wine which had been transformed into the very Body and Blood of the Lord.

    So now in the Anglo-Re-Inspiration error we have Almighty God powerless to save apart from 1611 Elizabethan English.

    BTW what if

    1) a person doesn't speak English? Does just hearing the 1611 English words save them or are they doomed?

    2) someone is bi-lingual are they half-saved by hearing or reading the 1611 English words?

    3) The original font of the 1611 KJB was Gothic, does a Roman font save? Should there be a GKJVO
    (Gothic King James Version Only) cult?
    How about Arial or Courier?
    What about Font size?
    Will 10 save but not 12?

    HankD
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

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    Hank, you'll have to read Dr. Hyles book or ask Pete Ruckman. They are the only two that I am aware of that hold this position.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Pastor Bob, you may be mislead into saying "only Ruckman and Hyles" believe xyz about the KJV.

    Those men (one dead) have unbelievable influence over thousands of pastors and tens of thousands in their churches.

    The two "only sect" churches we have here in Casper both very STRONGLY agree with these "heroes". They eat, live and breath "hyles" and (you can imagine how outspoken I am) we can have very little fellowship.

    This is sad. Maybe in your area the degree of extremism among the "onlies" is far less; out here there is very little "moderate" in the "only" camp. Thought you'd want to know.
     
  16. timothy 1769

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    Could someone in the know give us an update of the results so far? Thanks.
     
  17. Pastor_Bob

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    Results as of 5:30 CST 12/21/03

    KJVOs preach only from the KJV
    I agree 86% (24)
    I disagree 0% (0)
    I'm not sure 14% (4)

    KJVOs own no other Bible versions
    I agree 11% (3)
    I disagree 61% (17)
    I'm not sure 29% (8)

    KJVOs never reference modern versions as study aids
    I agree 43% (12)
    I disagree 36% (10)
    I'm not sure 21% (6)

    KJVO pastors would not allow a non-KJVO to preach in their pulpit
    I agree 79% (22)
    I disagree 11% (3)
    I'm not sure 11% (3)

    KJVO pastors would allow a non-KJVO to preach if he used a KJV
    I agree 43% (12)
    I disagree 25% (7)
    I'm not sure 32% (9)

    KJVOs believe the KJV as a translation is perfect
    I agree 96% (27)
    I disagree 0% (0)
    I'm not sure 4% (1)

    KJVOs believe the KJV contains no errors OF FACT
    I agree 96% (27)
    I disagree 0% (0)
    I'm not sure 4% (1)

    KJVOs believe the KJV is translated from texts that preserve the WORDS of God
    I agree 96% (27)
    I disagree 0% (0)
    I'm not sure 4% (1)

    KJVOs believe the translators were the best, most qualified men to translate
    I agree 89% (25)
    I disagree 0% (0)
    I'm not sure 11% (3)

    KJVOs accept the KJV as their final authority in the English language
    I agree 96% (27)
    I disagree 4% (1)
    I'm not sure 0% (0)

    KJVOs believe the KJV supercedes the Hebrew and Greek
    I agree 50% (14)
    I disagree 21% (6)
    I'm not sure 29% (8)

    KJVOs believe the translators were inspired
    I agree 61% (17)
    I disagree 25% (7)
    I'm not sure 14% (4)

    KJVOs believe in the re-inspiration of the Bible in 1611
    I agree 43% (12)
    I disagree 29% (8)
    I'm not sure 29% (8)

    KJVOs believe all non-English Bibles must be translated from the KJV
    I agree 43% (12)
    I disagree 25% (7)
    I'm not sure 32% (9)

    KJVOs believe that a lost person must be led to the Lord using a KJV
    I agree 32% (9)
    I disagree 43% (12)
    I'm not sure 25% (7)

    KJVOs make the text issue a test for fellowship
    I agree 75% (21)
    I disagree 14% (4)
    I'm not sure 11% (3)

    KJVOs would rather a person read the KJV or nothing at all
    I agree 64% (18)
    I disagree 21% (6)
    I'm not sure 14% (4)

    KJVOs on average have not sufficiently studied the text issue for themselves
    I agree 82% (23)
    I disagree 4% (1)
    I'm not sure 14% (4)
     
  18. rsr

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    Pastor_Bob, to be fair, the only KJVOs I'm conversant with are the ones I've met or became aware of here.
     
  19. robycop3

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    RSR, there are several KJVOs in my'hood, and one of them is one of my sister-in-law's stepmother. I like this woman a lot, so I wouldn't take her to task over KJVO since she's a former JW just getting her life back. Glad to see she's now a CHRISTIAN, using a REAL Bible. THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, be it the KJV, NIV, or another valid version she might have chosen.

    However, most of'em I know face-to-face are same as the ones on the net-long on rhetoric, short on EVIDENCE to support that rhetoric.
     

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