What new Tongues is Marck 16 14-18 speaking about?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Dec 28, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    0
    MARK CHAPTER 16 VERSES 14-18

    The Great Commission

    14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    I was wondering, if Christ said that he who believes that he has risen would be able to:

    #1) In his name cast out demons

    #2) Speak new Tongues

    #3) Take up serpents and even if we would drink anything deadly it wont hurt us.

    #4) Lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

    Of course we have to have the Faith in Christ and believe in him for this to occur. But why do so many believe that healings are not for today. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If he said that we could pray for the sick and they would be healed. Why do some think it wont happen today?

    Also, many say that speaking in Tongues is not biblical but he says that we will speak in new Tongues. What Tongues is he talking about?

    Casting out demons..... now and days if we see a Pastor rebuking demons, many call him crazy or too radical. What about that?

    Just a few things I was interested in. God Bless to everyone!!!
     
  2. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    These things did happen in the early days of the church. The miraculous spiritual gifts necessary for such works were given through the laying on of an apostle's hands (Acts 8:18). Those to whom the gifts were given were not able to pass them on themselves (Phillip had some gifts, but the Samaritans did not receive the Spirit until Peter and John came down from Jerusalem - Acts 8:5-17).

    Since there are no more apostles living today, there are no more apostles' hands to be laid on people to confer miraculous spiritual gifts.

    Such miracles had a purpose: confirming the word that was preached (Mark 16:17, 20). I have heard the miraculous spiritual gifts of the early church compared to scaffolding erected around a building during its' construction. While the building is being completed, the scaffolding is necesary for support, etc. But when the building is complete, there is no more need for the scaffolding.

    Imagine the absurdity of a completed building with the scaffolding left around it!

    There are NT examples of all of the signs listed in Mark 16 except for drinking any deadly thing without harm, unless I missed it. The word has long since been confirmed (Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him). There is no more need for miraculous spiritual gifts.
     
  3. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello St Fury,

    The only problem I have with that is the following. Please read it again.

    MARK CHAPTER 16 VERSES 14-18

    The Great Commission

    14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    At no point in time does he say.. only you Apostles who will build the early church will have these gifts. He says.. God into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He is saying every creature... then goes on to say that those who accept him will be able to speak new tongues, cast out demons, lay hands on the sick ext.

    To me its saying to the Apostles to go preach the Gospel and if they accept me as their Saviour. These signs will follow those who believe: ( Believe What? ) That Jesus paid the price on the cross for all of us. I think you and I are part of those who have heard and accepted the Gospel. If that is the case then we are able to speak in new Tongues, Cast out demons, lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed. It will then become a Question about faith huh?? :1_grouphug:
     
  4. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it becomes more a question of, "Does this apply to me?"

    Some statements, promises, etc in the Bible were limited in their application. For example, Jesus' promise that the Holy Spirit would guide people into all truth.

    Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    This was spoken to the apostles and to no one else. Many contend this applies to all believers of all time, but if it did, there would be no religious division.

    The promise of miraculous gifts of the Spirit was fulfilled, but as the Bible tells us, they had a purpose which has been fulfilled. 1 Cor 10 speaks of a time when gifts like tongues, knowledge, and prophesy would pass away. It would be when that which was in part was complete. Revelation came by way of these gifts. Revelation is complete. The gifts have ceased. I'm not opposed to them, they're just not around anymore.
     
  5. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    0
    I get what you are saying St. Fury but the thing is that Jesus said all who believe. He didnt say.. only you apostles or just for a few years.. he said all who believe. :1_grouphug:
     
  6. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    True enough. And the Great Commission is repeated in some form in every Gospel and in the Book of Acts. But what follows the Great Commission in the Gospel of Mark is not. It is directed only to the disciples that Jesus was speaking to at that time. Context becomes very important. It is important not to isolate these verses out of their context and try and make them applicable for all ages. Have you taken any HCl lately?
     
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should we even try to build doctrines on these disputed verses?
     
  8. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes,

    Then we'd have the disputed Gospel...

    Or maybe the disputed truth! :laugh: :laugh:

    @ DHK= Not wanting to join this one but let me add, all through the Acts and the Epistles we find speaking in tongues was not limited to the Apostles. The Pentacostals believe speaking in tongues is a sign one is indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

    Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    The study note in my NASB Key Word Study Bible says:
    Mar 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;


    Maybe that helps.
     
  10. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tali, look at this prophecy quoted by Peter in the first gospel sermon ever preached in Acts 2:

    Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

    We see that something would be poured out of the Spirit upon all flesh. There are no restrictions explicitly stated in the text. Yet, none of us would contend that every person on the face of the earth was the recipient of a miraculous outpouring of the Spirit of God.

    In the text under discussion the word "all" does not appear except in one or two dubious modern "translations", to use the word loosely. I'm not bashing all newer versions of the Scriptures, but some are more reliable than others.

    With Acts 2:17 for an example of a promise with limited application, can you see that Mark 16:17-18 does not necessarily apply to believers of all time, but might point to only a certain few?
     
  11. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    We might also notice than none other than an apostle ever laid hands on anyone to the effect of enabling that person to speak in tongues, etc.
     
  12. JerryL

    JerryL
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    #12 JerryL, Dec 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2007
  13. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just realized that we're a little off track from the question posed in the OP. There it was asked:

    "What new Tongues is Mark 16 14-18 speaking about?"

    Let's turn to the Bible to see what is written about the new tongues which were spoken by believers then.

    Act 2:4 And they [the apostles - SF] were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
    Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them [the apostles] speak in his own language.
    Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these [the apostles] which speak Galilaeans?
    Act 2:8 And how hear we every man [the apostles] in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them [the apostles] speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


    There is perhaps no clearer description of the new tongues spoken by believers than this. The "new tongues" were simply human languages which the speaker did not have the natural ability to speak, but which the hearer understood.

    The "tongues" which one might hear in a Pentecostal assembly today bear no resemblence to those spoken by those in the early church who were given this miraculous gift. For that matter, God's gift of tongues would not be needed in most assemblies anywhere today, since everyone walks in the door speaking the same language as everyone else there, anyway.
     
  14. JerryL

    JerryL
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    :thumbs: Amen!
     
  15. Link

    Link
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a disputed passage since it does not show up in some lineages of manuscripts. Nevertheless, notice that it does not say that each believer will do every sign, but that the signs will follow 'them' that believe. I Corinthians 12 shows us that the gifts are distributed among the saints.

    Yes, the gifts of the Spirit are real, and they do happen today. Some people on this board may not have experienced them, but we can't build doctrine on their lack of experience. The Bible teaches they are real. We see some of them occuring really far off in the future when we read Revelation (prophecy and miracles) so it makes no sense to argue that they have already ceased.
     
  16. Link

    Link
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a problem with your argument. In I Corinthians 14, we see that if someone speaks in tongues 'no man understandeth him' and therefore the message in tongues needs to be interpreted. Interpretation was a gift, and one could pray to be able to interpret (v. 13.) If no one in the church had to naturally understand the message in tongues for it to be real or to be used in church.
     
  17. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    If all speak the same language in an assembly, what would be the purpose of speaking in tongues at all?
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,208
    Likes Received:
    192
    My son was at this conference. Nothing was decided, both the pro and con scholars went home with unchanged views, but some excellent points were made on both sides.

    The gist of the matter? If you are on the Byzantine text side you believe the verses were in the original. If on the Alexandrian/eclectic side you have doubts. Note though: every single version I've ever checked, Greek, English, Japanese, Chinese, etc., has those verses (though some may have them in brackets). So who has the guts to actually take the verses out? No one!

    Now as to the "new tongues," they were new languages. This is not only linguistically accurate, it is actually what was believed by the original Pentecostals at the "Azuza Street Revival" in 1906, in particular Parham. They then sent out missionaries expecting them to be able to preach the Gospel miraculously in other languages. Eighteen attempts were reported in China, Japan and India--failures all! See the story in Azuza Street and Beyond, ed. by L. Grant McClung, Jr. (pp. 3-13).

    Guess what? I had to go to language school for two years to learn my new tongue of Japanese--and the Pentecostals and Charismatics did too, bless their hearts! As soon as I see someone speak miraculously in Japanese and win these precious folk to Christ, I'll believe they have the Acts 2 miraculous version.
     
  19. trustitl

    trustitl
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    I Cor. 14:22 "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not"
    Go through the book of Acts and you will see how God used this sign to speak to the Jews that couldn't believe that God would include Gentiles in the Gospel.

    The charismatics have incorrectly turned this gift into a form of worship between them and God.

    "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" (I Cor. 14:4) is misunderstood to be an appropriate use of a gift to "edify oneself". I think Paul is pointing out that they were off base. Back in chapter 12 Paul wrote " the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal (12:7)". This would stand in contrast to what he says later if the chapter 14 verse was written to encourage the Corinthians in what they were doing (which is what "praying in the spirit" is today).

    The word edify is not always a positive thing. Look in chapter 8 to see how Paul used this word: "10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened (same greek word as translated edify)to eat those things which are offered to idols". I think Paul is using the term negatively in chapter 14 as well.
     
  20. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's not forget the underlying purpose of the miraculous sign gifts - to confirm the preached word, "...the Lord working with them, confirming the word with signs following"). Signs following what? The preaching of the gospel of Christ.

    Question: Has the word of the gospel of Jesus Christ been confirmed?

    If it has, there is no more need for miraculous sign gifts.

    If it has not, there is no use in trusting in the Bible, for Heb 2:3 declares without ambiguity that the word had at the time of its' writing, been confirmed with signs.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...