What People Are NOT saying

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by donnA, Dec 1, 2002.

  1. donnA

    donnA
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    I was doing some thinking this morning, and thought I'd say this again becasue things get lost in a topic with lots of pages.
    But I was thinking about the discussions on hair, veils,and dresses.
    I think for the most part most people are not saying it is wrong for a woman to decide to wear a headcovering, or dresses only. I don't think I've seen anyone with that opinion. I know I have not said it is wrong for a woman to do that.
    But what most people are saying is that that woman can not be the convictiong force on whether or not another woman does the samething she does. In no way should a persons spirituality, or christianity, or even obedience to God come into play as too whether or not they choose to dress this way. It neither makes a woman more or less spiritual, christian, or obedient to God based on if they wear pants or dresses, or a headcovering. Each of us are convicted on certain things, it is the Holy Spirit only who does he convicting, no one can casue they conviction, each person is answerable to God alone on what they themselves have been convicted on. We are no all convicted on the saemthings, God has different plans for each of us, and those plans do not call for them samethings in each of us. If a woman needs to wear a headcovering in order for her to reconize who is the head then God would call her to that. But that same woman not expect God to do the samething in every woman, we are each different people, and God has different plans for us, for ewhat He wants to use us for. Maybe some women are called to wear a headcovering becasue they will not(either concessously or subconcessously) give over headship. I don't know, but as we are each different, how God deals with each of us is different. I see peopel on here giving testimony to that very fact all the time.
    So to make it short(?), I for one, and believe most others are the same on this, am not tell anyone they shouldn't do it, thats it's wrong to do it, but that God has called you to it, convicted you to do it, not me. Only God convicts, then leave the convicting to Him.
     
  2. Helen

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    Thank you, Katie; that's important to say. The one thing I would add is that if a person is doing something for the wrong reason, then it needs to be thought through more carefully. To do something which is not against God's word simply because you like it and want to, is quite fine. To declare that this is what God wants all to do, however, especially if it is being linked somehow to being more 'holy' or 'righteous' is very, very wrong.

    But it would be awfully boring to see us all dressed the same! So as long as it's modest and you like what you are wearing, wear it!
     
  3. donnA

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    Yes Helen, I agree with you. God has creatd us all differently, He has given us all differnt personalities. And He uses those for His purposes when we are willing to be used. So we are not all meant to be the same. I noticed int he N.T. that God gave the apostles a new directionin live away from their previous self serving life, but He used who they were, their personalities. Each one different from the next, each one able to live God's plan for their lives.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    Not getting involved, but it is amazing how round a circle is, even in Bible study.

    Cheers,

    Just Jim
     
  5. Helen

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    You're right, Jim. But you know something? The Holy Spirit is drawing us all in, from our different starting points, to the Center, Jesus Christ. Sometimes I wonder when we create unnecessary laws for ourselves, or judge others, if we are not actually insulting the Holy Spirit, in a sense telling Him that He doesn't know what He is about.

    I'm learning. Slowly but surely, I'm learning.

    Thank God!
     
  6. Jim1999

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    Helen, you know that I resigned as moderator over this, and why I am not getting involved. I feel it will still reflect on the Board, and I don't want that.......but it is interesting to see things unfold..........still, nothing will change in some circles.

    A circle comes back to itself. It can insulate, but also isolate.....I guess it all depends on Who is in the centre to begin with.

    Cheers,

    Just Jim
     
  7. Thankful

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    Jim, you really did resign as moderator [​IMG]

    I am sorry to hear that. Maybe you will return.
    I enjoy your posts very much
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    We miss Jim already and pray for his soon return as moderator of this forum. As a co-moderator, I am watching this and other "lid-related" threads carefully.

    And I am saddened, actually, about all of this bitterness and conflict, the dripping piety, and throwing "I'm more spiritual than you are" legalism. Don't be surprised to see the threads edited or closed HERE as they had to be on the Women's Forum.

    I would ask everyone to move on, please.
     
  9. Thankful

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    I'll tell you one of the things this discussion has done for me.

    It has made me very thankful, grateful and appreciative of my church.

    I looked around this morning and people were there to worship in all manner of dress and they were all so loving and caring for each other.

    I have never known anyone to ridicule anyone for any reason. THey pray for each other and care about each other.

    Praise the Lord. He loves us!

    [ December 01, 2002, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Thankful ]
     
  10. Helen

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    Oh, I see what you meant, Jim. I was thinking of all different kinds of people and all different starting points. I missed your meaning altogether I guess -- I'm sorry!

    I truly hope that we can always make sure the 'circle' stays open, if you are referring to what I think you are referring to. C.S. Lewis talked about a lot of this in one of his sermons/essays.

    I just pulled out my copy of the collection entitled "The Weight of Glory". The one I was thinking of is called "The Inner Ring." He talks about the desire of folks to belong to an inner ring that they hold high in their own esteem. And I know from my own experience on both sides of that ring that the natural tendency is to shut people out and make it somewhat 'exclusive' and containing only the 'right sort' of people.

    And although the original disciples/Apostles were of necessity their own sort of 'inner ring', one of the main points of Christ's time on earth during the Incarnation was to smash the idea of an inner ring where God is concerned.

    And I know that through the ages hundreds of inner rings of one kind or another have emerged in Christian circles. But we must not allow them. As Lewis mentions, it is impossible to avoid in the sense of the directors of an organization. For instance, the moderators here have their own private board, which you, Jim, and I, Helen, have access to. That is a sort of 'inner ring,' but an essential one to the running of the board. The board is designed primarily for Baptists, and that is another 'inner ring', although with all the different sorts of Baptists who have appeared here, that's quite an extensive ring!

    And yet our hearts themselves cannot be allowed to be of an 'inner ring' mentality. This is the funny quandry we find ourselves in -- we have to function in inner rings on a daily basis, but we cannot afford to take them seriously in the sense of eternal reality and God's pleasure. We cannot afford to push people away for all the reasons that would be so natural for us to do so if our lives were not governed and inhabited by the Holy Spirit.

    A circle? Of Baptists here, yes. But of respect for one another? One of the wonderful things about being one of a number of moderators is that we can cover each other's weaknesses and so keep the circle open.

    Have I had my problems with that sometimes? Yes. Am I getting better? Yes. Under my own power? Most emphatically no! :D
     
  11. Jim1999

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    Outwitted

    He drew a circle that shut me out-
    Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
    But Love and I had the wit to win;
    We drew a circle that took him in!

    -Edwin Markham

    Cheers,

    Just Jim

    PS. Yes, Lewis draws a pefect circle, doesn't he?
     
  12. donnA

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    Dr. Bob, I started this thread in an effort to help bring unity where there is such strong seperation. I didn't mean to continue the the disagreements on this thread also. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that so that you thought otherwise.
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    Katie, I know where you're at. Not upset with you or unhappy about going in "circles" (so to speak). We need to discuss this fully and then have some closure.

    Emphasis on closure, which I see in this thread! Thanks! [​IMG]
     
  14. donnA

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    Than k you Dr. Bob, for understanding my reasons for this thread. I'd also like to get it over with, it's silly to have to continue to dwell on this. But we will as long as we're told we aren't good chritians becasue we don't do what a person thinsk we should, the bible teaches us to please God not man(or woman in this case).
     
  15. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, sister, Preach it!!!
     
  16. SueLyn

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    Every time I see "Ed Edwards", it makes me smile. [​IMG] I also know that you are Thankful's husband, so she is "Edwards" also. "Edwards" is my maiden name but I also knew an associate pastor/music director named Eddis Edwards and his sweet wife, Eve. Brother Eddis has since passed away, but he did pastor a church in OKC. I guess I never knew there were so many "Edwards" people out there! And I've never known any Edwards' that were bad for sure! :D
    I'll shut up now...
    Sue
     
  17. Miss Maggie

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    Hi Katie, I hope you feel some peace about this issue soon. I'm sorry if I've made you feel obligated one way or the other. You are a good woman, and you deserve to have peace in your heart about this issue. Trust your instincts. Trust your husband, and most importantly trust the Holy Spirit working within you. I can't say what's best for you, because I'm not walking in your mocassins. I sincerely hope that you have a peaceful closure for this issue. May the Lord bless you abundantly whichever way you are called.

    [​IMG] humbly
    Maggie
     
  18. C.S. Murphy

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  19. Helen

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    Oh I agree, Murphy! But personal guidelines are personal, right? The way I see it, the Holy Spirit has picked us each up from different places in life: some have started out quite liberal and some quite conservative. Some have started out 'modern' and some 'old fashioned.' Just the fact that some are guys and some gals is a difference right there!

    And the Holy Spirit is moving us all toward Christ, so that in the end we will all be formed in HIS image and not something in our own minds (mine very much included). Thus, the liberal starter will be moved to a more conservative position and maybe will be given nudges by the Holy Spirit to do things best for him or her which are not necessarily applicable to others. The conservative will learn more tolerance. The older person will learn more of youth and the youth more of respect. About guys and gals....well, that's a problem only God can solve!

    Nevertheless, I think that each of us responding to the guidance of the Holy Spirit as He works in each of our lives is a lot different that actual laws made by some who are sometimes in authority in a church or denomination. We just seem so fond of more and more rules!

    So I see the two things as very different. I hope that helps a little. It was not even a 'veiled' barb at anything that has happened on the forums recently, but a far more general observation based on watching people and organizations in general.

    If I was confusing, I appreciate your post so I could try to clarify what I was saying. Thank you.
     
  20. donnA

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    Sue, hey my maiden name is Edwards.

    Thank you Maggie, I'm perfectly alright with it. And I know I am alright with God in this issues, if I didn't think so I would change what I do and how I do it.

    Murphy, I think we haven't said no one should not live by thier convictions, but that they should not act in the way that only the Holy Spirit does and try and convict us, we are already living by our own convictions on this issue.
     

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