What percentage are Christian

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pete Richert, Jan 30, 2003.

  1. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    This is an elaboration of a poll began by Johnv with suggestions by Dr. Bob.

    Sorry about the spelling.

    This is IN NO WAY an attempt to be ecumenical. Obviously we believe that Baptists have the correct doctrine in every respect or we wouldn't be Baptists. This is just a quesiton of whether you feel that the doctrine these other denominations have disqualifies them from having a saving trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. The question exactly is, what percentage of these other denominations to you believe to have a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

    [ January 31, 2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Pete Richert ]
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    WOW!

    No (or only a few) Roman Catholic people are Christians?

    Whatever... In the real world religious faith is much more complicated and nuanced than a catechism or creed. Salvation is not a matter of official theological concepts but instead a matter of a person surrendering themselves to God. As difficult as it is for many of us to understand, God condescends to us to meet us even in the midst of our theological errors. God can work out a living faith in our lives even though we have the trappings of fallen and corrupt religion penetrating our spiritual life.

    This is a very good example of the problem involved with mere humans trying to separate the wheat from the tares.
     
  3. massdak

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    i disagree with you it is faith in Christ only, if additions are made to that then grace is no more grace
     
  4. Pete Richert

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    I do appreciate your passion and hope for these people. I find many in Baptist circles are quite well happy that others are going to hell. But I think your above sentence is to simplified. I agree that whether you baptize in water by immersion or this or that won't ultimatly effect your trust in Christ, but to just say one needs to surrend to God might be misleading. How does one surrender to God. I believe one surrendering to God is trusting on His grace completly. Recieving salvation through his gift alone through faith alone. If you are trusting your own works, you haven't surrendered yourself to God, but are still caught up in man's religion. There are many many Hindus who have surrendered themselves (in a way that would put us to shame) to their "gods" but all the sincerity, hard work, strong devotions, or harsh regular of desires will do nothing and is not true surrender.
     
  5. Pete Richert

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    By the way, I think it is hilarious that as of now (at 14 votes) more people think there is a large percentage of brethren saved then Baptist [​IMG] I guess we need to start calling this the Brethren board. I am interested in whoever voted none of the Brethren what experience they have had with them. I went to a Brethren church for three years and to be honest, I didn't reconize a singe difference from fundlemental dispensational bible thumping baptists. Indeed, many of those from a different persuation then dispensational often claim that it was started by a Brethren theologian , Darby.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Pete - appreciate the poll and the broader classifications for each. One thing is for sure, we certainly have a great variety of viewpoints for a "baptist-only" forum here!

    I mean, some even though JW's were probably saved. To me, that was a no brainer you threw in just so we could all agree on SOMEBODY!

    And it does make me thankful that going to heaven is not a democracy, not for us to make the call. But God alone, giving His grace alone.
     
  7. Ben W

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    How can anybody make an assumption of how many of a specific denomination are saved? How can you categorise Baptists? People might say all Baptists are saved and then rip on the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church, yet they are also Baptists.
     
  8. neal4christ

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    Just as a little side note, I heard a sermon one time where the pastor quoted some Evangelical leaders about their take on how many people in the church are actually saved. I believe J.I. Packer said something like 50%, Billy Grahm around 25%, and Criswell at like 20 or 30%. Personally, I chose a small percentage for all of the denominations, except for JWs and Mormons. I would agree that probably only around 25% of people who call themselves Christians really are. I think this infection of "easy believism" has given people a false since of security. However, it has probably been the same throughout the ages. There truly will be many in that day that will say, "Lord, Lord" and He will say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you." [​IMG]

    Neal

    [ January 31, 2003, 04:29 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  9. I Am Blessed 24

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    Morning! [​IMG]

    I still feel, other than JW and Mormons, that it should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Only God knows our hearts.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  10. Thankful

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    I wish you had added: don't know or have any idea. I tried to skip the ones that I have no idea about their beliefs, but then it wouldn't count any of my votes. Therefore, I do not get to view the results of the poll. [​IMG]


    Edit to correct typo
     
  11. Refreshed

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    God doesn't know the hearts of JWs and Mormons? [​IMG]

    Jason :D

    P.S. In all honesty, any group that denies the fundamental doctrines of scriptures would be suspect. I would lump Catholics in with JWs and Mormons. Hey, the Catholics were so against the Bible believers that they killed adherents for hundreds of years. Anyone that says you have to "do" work in order to be saved are preaching a false doctrine. Catholics require keeping of the sacraments.
     
  12. romanbear

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    Hi everyone;
    I side With Jesus on this, He said few would find the straight and narrow. This includes everyone.
    Romanbear
     
  13. Charlotte Marcel

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    I didn't answer your poll because I don't know.

    If a person is saved than they are Christian. Is that a commonly acceptable assertion? And couldn't anyone accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior? Denominational discussion of individual salvation, seems a ludicrous question to ask.
     
  14. Johnv

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    Ths simply showes that most people have the attitude of "people who think and believe like me are Chistians".
     
  15. Johnv

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    Catholics require keeping of the sacraments.

    So what? Baptists require immersion. We boldly say that anyone who does not baptize via immersion is cannot be a Baptist.
     
  16. Caretaker

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    Those who follow the Word of God, and the God of the Word follow truth. Those who place their faith in the traditions of man, and a twisted and perverted scripture, follow apostasy.

    Catholic Catechism:
    "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
    846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
    Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

    Council of Trent:

    1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20).
    B. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).
    C. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
    D. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
    E. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
    F. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8).
    G. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5).


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  17. John Wells

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    I think you'll find a broad variance among Baptist churches on this subject; all the way from some that see water baptism as insignificant, to those who believe you aren't saved unless you are dunked!

    At my church, to become a member of our church, you have to have been, or be baptized. The reasoning behind this is baptism does not save a person, but as a direct command by Jesus, a first act of obedience if you will, if one is unwilling to demonstrate obedience to Jesus Christ in this area, then they are very likely not serious about obedience to Christ at all! Baptism is a public profession of what has already taken place on the inside of an individual: they have been buried (old self) with Jesus in death, and they have been raised to newness of life (new creation) in Him. This takes place the moment we confess our sins and helplessness without Jesus, and ask Him to save us and be Lord of our lives.

    As to this poll, I wouldn't try to nail down a percentage. Let me just say that a large number of people who claim to be saved are not. I don't ask people if they are Christians. That question requires little thought and introspection. I ask people, "What is your relationship with Jesus Christ?" No relationship with the Savior = no Savior! :eek:

    Matthew 7:22-23 (NIV)
    Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you (no relationship). Away from me, you evildoers!’
     
  18. new man

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    Amen Romanbear! The way is narrow. Narrow indeed.

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  19. qwerty

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    This is a side-topic, but somewhat applicable:


    A couple of Sundays ago, we hear from the pulpit (in a SBC church) that the speaker only thinks that about 25 percent in the church are saved. Alter call given, nobody gets saved.

    A week later, the pastor gets up, and states the need for the church to give more. He says that it looks like 20 percent of the people are giving 80 percent of the money.

    I thought it was humorous, but neither speaker put the two messages together. If only 25 percent are saved in the church, then maybe that is why about 20 percent who attend give 80 percent of the money. I don't know why the unsaved would be giving to the church, anyway. But I assume that if they gave, their money would be gladly accepted.
     
  20. Johnv

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    The pastor has no biblical right to stand in front of a congregation and judge their salvation. Only God can do that.

    He says that it looks like 20 percent of the people are giving 80 percent of the money.
    This is consistent economic rule, known as Pareto's Law. In 1906, Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto created a mathematical formula to describe the unequal distribution of wealth in his country, observing that twenty percent of the people owned eighty percent of the wealth. It tends to be a constent trend. 20% of congregants give 80% of the budget. 20% of workers make up 80% of the payroll. 80% of one's income goes towards 20% of one's bills. Project Managers know that 20 percent of the work (the first 10 percent and the last 10 percent) consume 80 percent of your time and resources. etc etc etc.
     

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