What say you

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Nov 4, 2011.

?

What say you

  1. I would be totally in greement with all His laws and punishments

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Some are all right but some are too harsh

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I would not want to live under such laws

    9 vote(s)
    45.0%
  4. other

    7 vote(s)
    35.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?
     
    #1 freeatlast, Nov 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2011
  2. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wanted to check both the first and third option, but it did not let me. I would not want to live under such laws; although I'm not sure exactly which laws you are excluding, feast and ceremonies I understand, but "rituals" could be taken any number of ways.
     
  3. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm with 12strings. I'd have chosen 1 & 3. I wouldn't necessarily WANT to, but I would because it's God's law.
     
  4. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Help me out here a little. If God's laws are good and not evil and we have turned to wanting good (part of repentance) why would we not hunger to be under thsoe laws for a nation to keep us safe and secure living in peace? Do you feel that God is too strict (unjust) or what? Just asking.
     
  5. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    You mean like this Law?

    Deuteronomy 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
    19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
    20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
    21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    A lot of folks would not have survived the 60's and 70's had this law been in effect.
     
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    just thankful that I am under the new Covenant of grace, and not forced to to live under all of those laws under the Old Covenant!

    Would live under that type of arrangement, but MUCH prefer to live under grace now!
     
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am just asking what I asked. If you feel that some of God's ways are too harsh or you just do not agree with them that is fine just say so. God already knows your heart on the matter so you might as well say what is in your heart. I am just interested in what those who claim to be followers of God hold in regards to how God feels about certain things.
     
  8. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    "If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals were left out....?"

    That's not nearly enough information. For instance, if you grow crops-- or grow anything-- where do you take your tithe thereof? Would celebrating holidays that are inevitably based on pagan dates or rituals be illegal? What would be the penalty for boiling a goat in its mother's milk? Or would we have to 'interpret' that the way Jews have historically-- that is, never put meat and dairy products on the same table?
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would you like to see America ruled by/under OT law, as isreal was?

    Don't you think far superior to live under the NT Grace now?
     
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not talking about the religious aspect of the law. That was made clear in the OP. I am talking about the judicial side of the law.
     
  11. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Read the OP.
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    That is what we are asking their are many aspects to the Law, For instance keeping the Sabbath, well all of the Law regarding the sabbath or just the Sabbath day?
    The Sabbath entailed not just keeping the 7th day, but also the 7th year and then on the 50th year the year of Jubillee, so all aspects or part or do you mean just the 10 commandments.
    The taxation that the jews had was extreem, nearly 70% of their income was called for in some of their tithes scripturally required do mean all those aspects?
    Since God has placed us under Grace and Grace giving then, 2 Corinthians 9: 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
    7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

    This is how God expects the church to give now so would we then be violating scripture to go back under the tithe?
    The OP is a bit vague on exactly what you mean at least to me and it seems to a few others.
     
  13. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Well many of those aspects of the Law are not valid in the age in which we live so then we would violate scripture in order to observe them, not just the sacrifices are involved in these laws, capital punishment by stoning applies not just for murder but for manslaughter. I agree with capital punishment as God did institute it but do we carry it out for stoning or does it matter the form, in you O.P. do you mena down to the form of capital punishment used?
    What is considered lawlessness? God commanded in his judicial law for male children to be circumcised as descendeants of Abraham, but Paul said we circumcission is not required for the N.T. believer, so would we be in violation of New Testament teaching by observing the Law given to the Israelites? Clear the O.P. do you mean those aspects of O.T. law which were not made invalid by the N.T.? If we observed them would we violate the N.T. in seeking to follow them?
     
  14. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think you can seperate out the civil laws from the ritual, the ritual from the ceremonial or the ceremonial from the civil. All three are part of the whole. Paul said to break one was the break the whole.

    The purpose for which the Law was given was to show the world that was then, that there was a better way to live and if one lived loving God's law one would live peacefully.

    Those were tough times back then and not nearly as civilized as we think we are today. It took a tough Law, to make up for all the "junk" civilization that was going on. Punishments were tough, because the people didn't understand and wouldn't have responded to a "kinder gentler" Law. That had to wait for centuries, millinia even until Christ came. Paul even calls the Law a "harsh taskmaster".

    So my answer is "other". I would not want to live under those laws and I'm quite glad God put me in this time and this place where free grace abounds. Would I have been able to live in those times? Possibly, if I hadn't ever known anything else. Would I have wanted to join up as a Jew if I hadn't been born one? Don't know, they had a lot of fussing and fighting going on, I'm not certain I could have seen the benefit. :eek:
     
  15. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    FAL, you cannot divide the law (The Pentateuch) up into pieces. It is a woven piece of scripture God gave to the Israelites.

    There are 613 commandments with many conditions and/or consequences for not fulfilling them woven together with one law (mitzva) leading into the next.

    Many cannot be kept now in the 21st century because they depend upon a cleansed and sanctified Temple in Jerusalem (ashes of the Red Heifer, etc) and an identifiable Levitical sacerdotal priesthood to intercede on your behalf with offerings, tithes, gifts, etc...

    I will say this, if I were under the law it would be my fulltime occupation to keep every one of them to the best of my understanding and ability.

    HankD
     
  16. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just answer the question or don't answer.
     
  17. revmwc

    revmwc
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,037
    Likes Received:
    69
    Without a clear OP then other.
     
  18. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is good enough.
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0

    Again, would you like to live in a nation under OT law, where if ONE thing was done against it, was stoned/killed off IF a capital offense?

    That IF I took my morning walk, and walked more than "allowed" distance, could get stoned, by violating the Sabbath day?
     
  20. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your question has nothing to do with the OP. Read the OP and ask again and I will respond to a quesion that is in toon with the OP.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...