What Should A Christians Profession be Judged On ?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by salzer mtn, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    A Good tree bringeth forth good fruit. We as Christians are judged by others to be in Christ whether we like it or not. If we are Christians we bear the fruit of the Spirit, some more, some less. We all have different degree's in growth. The fruit of the Spirit can be found in Gal 5:23-24. Now to the point of the post. Are people to be judged on what they believe as doctrine of the bible to determine if they are a Christian or not ? For example: I don't believe in CoC doctrine ( Water Baptism regeneration). CoC don't believe in Baptist doctrine. Both go to scripture to prove their doctrine for their satisfaction. As far as the fruit of the Spirit is concerned, in a CoC's walk it seems to be there as much as a Baptist. Therefore should we determine that CoC's, CoG ( Three workings of grace) and others we don't agree with are saved because they bear the fruit of the Spirit but are just mislead on doctrine or should we determine their not saved at all ?
     
    #1 salzer mtn, Jun 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2015
  2. Van

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    Well the first point of judgment is if you use an acronym such as CoC you should define it.

    I think scripture is clear, we are to judge ourselves to see if we are of the faith. And because the visible church is comprised of tares and wheat, we are to witness both within the church and outside the church.

    How did Jesus discern His sheep from the goats? By verifying they were dispensational, or pre-trip, or Calvinist? Nope. We are to present the pure gospel, without adding our inventions. You know, love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Sacrifice for the least of His.
     
  3. JamesL

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    Can somebody tell me, what in the world does a tree bringing forth good (or bad) fruit have to do with the fruit of the Spirit?

    Why is it when someone quotes Matthew 7:15-20 or Matthew 12:33, they automatically jump ship to Galatians to define what constitutes good fruit?

    Matthew 7:15-23
    “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits."


    It's pretty clear that Jesus was warning about false prophets, and the WORDS they speak, leading people astray.

    How about.....

    Matthew 12:33-37
    “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, SPEAK what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


    Yeah. Once again, the good and bad fruit is referring to the WORDS one would speak. Namely, about Jesus Christ and who He is - Beelzebul or the Son of God?

    It doesn't have anything to do with behavior, Galatians 5, or anything of the sort.


    Incidentally, the word translated "bad" (Gr. sapros - literally "rotten") is used in Ephesians 4:29...
    "Let no unwholesome WORD proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear."

    So this rotten speach Paul mentioned is contrasted against words of edification.

    And aside from Matthew 13:48, where Jesus used "sapros" in reference to fish, every NT instance is in reference to words. Only 8 uses of this word in the NT:

    Matt 7:17,18
    Matt 12:33 (twice)
    Matt 13:48
    Luke 6:43 (twice)
    Eph 4:29


    So bad fruit is rotten speech, false teachings, etc.,

    Good fruit is sound doctrine and edifying speech. It most certainly has nothing to do with Galatians 5


    .
     
  4. Van

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    Fruit is used in scripture as a metaphor for various results of our condition, saved or unsaved. Unless Christ abides in us, we cannot bear fruit. Now the fruit of the spirit reflects our Spirit's fruit. But what is in view with our fruit? What is the fruit of the righteous? If we contribute to winning souls, are those saved seen as our fruit? Take a bite out of that apple.
     
  5. salzer mtn

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    People in all different religions make converts so to me that is not a evidence of salvation. I just listened to a preacher on video preach and he said the only evidence we have of being saved is God makes us to know we our sinners. He went on to say a changed life for the better is not a evidence of salvation. He used scripture when Paul said I am the chief of sinners. I agree that we are just sinners saved by grace but I believe the bible teaches other evidence of salvation too. like the fruit of the Spirit in Gal. To me it is wrong to say you are not a Christian, even though you bear fruit of the Spirit but have a different view of scripture of when the blood was applied, and to whether that blood is effectual unto all men or not. In some religious circles if you don't believe their doctrine you are not saved. It doesn't matter to them if you say you know without a shadow of a doubt you are born again, they always goes back to the point, but you don't believe the bible like I do so you don't know the Lord.
     
  6. popsthebuilder

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    The profession of another should go without judgement because it is deemed necessary by society which is askew.

    Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Rebel

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    This is something that you and I finally agree on.
     
  8. JamesL

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    You have a skewed understanding of the word "fruit" that is handicapped by your doctrine. Van adequately defined fruit as "the result of....."

    There was no mention of evidence at all. He said "result"

    Someone may be in financial ruin because of credit purchases beyond their means. The financial ruin is the result of reckless spending, but as long as they have a little bit of credit, it will never be evident.

    I agree that a "changed life" is absolutely not evidence of salvation, especially if the change is relegated to behavioral issues. If someone's testimony consists only of how they used to do drugs but now don't, they used to drink but now don't, change from womanizing, change from gambling, etc. - and they have no testimony of a hope of eternity because Jesus died in their stead - i have serious reservations about their testimony.

    As a matter of fact, i offended someone on this board because his testimony sounds like the only thing Jesus saved him from was rock music.

    If a testimony is no deeper than "He changed my life" it should be considered very suspect, because people can change their own life in the flesh, and mistake that for a born again experience, when they have no hope in Christ
     
  9. salzer mtn

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    11 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Gal 5:22-24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lust. Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
     
  10. JamesL

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    Does that have anything to do with this thread?

    What do you make of those scriptural statements?

    Add commentary, please?
     
  11. salzer mtn

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    Those that are saved are Christ's fruit, not ours, Heb 2:13.
     
  12. salzer mtn

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    James when a man is saved God takes out the stony heart and put in a heart of flash. He has a new nature, he brings forth fruit of the Spirit and there named in Gal. He also has a love for his brethren and a love toward God he never had as a lost man. These fruit manifest themselves and become our good works toward our fellow man. There are genuine fruits of the Spirit and then there are fruits that resemble the real thing that can be found in lost people that just decide for themselves to love more or to become a person that is longsuffering or so on. Some people have a natural personality to be loving and patient and longsuffering and so if they are saved at a later time their personality does not change hardly at all.
     
    #12 salzer mtn, Jun 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2015
  13. Van

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    Romans 1:13
    I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.

    Romans 7:4
    Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

    Romans 15:28
    Therefore, when I have finished this, and have put my seal on this fruit of theirs, I will go on by way of you to Spain.

    Folks, we cannot bear fruit unless we abide in Christ, and Christ abides in us. As ambassadors of Christ our mission is soul-winning, and the fruit of our labor are those we helped toward salvation. Soul-winners enter heaven abundantly.
     
  14. Van

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    Proverbs 11:30
    The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, And he who is wise wins souls.

    1 Corinthians 9:19
    For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

    1 Corinthians 9:20
    To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

    1 Corinthians 9:21
    to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
     
    #14 Van, Jun 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2015
  15. salzer mtn

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    Well I've learned something new today, Van and James Who died on the cross instead of Christ. Have a good day.
     
  16. Van

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    If you learned to belittle and disparage others, you did not learn it from prayerful study of the commands of Christ.

    Just before Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father, He gave us this command, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
     
  17. JamesL

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    What a sad post...praying for you




    .
     
  18. salzer mtn

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    Everyone knows I was kidding but you and Van wants to make something out of nothing. Both of you ruined the primary question in the Op by your nit picking. I have learned the behavior on this board, if a Calvinist post anything the non- cals starts the attack. While you pray for me, pray for yourselves.
     
  19. Van

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    Wait a minute. Your view was folks could be born anew, even if their doctrine differed from others. Specifically you said,
    This refers to a difference between Calvinists and non-Calvinists.

    And rather than ruining your thread, I agreed with you. Here is what I said,
    Bottom line, we agreed on what should not be used, doctrine, but disagreed on what should be used, exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, or being an effective ambassador for Christ.
     
    #19 Van, Jun 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2015
  20. beameup

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    The pastor in the church I'm currently attending judges me in the same way that the Pharisees "evaluated" Jesus before his trial.
    He told me today that I need to "get busy" working for the Lord. He has absolute NO CLUE what I do on a daily basis.
    All his "judgments" are based on seeing my at the church for the last 5 weeks. His entire "focus" is on having people "come forward" to receive Christ.
    He's been a Baptist pastor here in the Philippines for decades.

    He is absolutely "clueless" about the role of the Holy Spirit in a believers life, and "evaluates" everything through his "old man" (numbers, dollars, buildings).
     
    #20 beameup, Jun 25, 2015
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