What the Word of God says on Total Depravity

What translation is this Yelsew? My KJV flows rather differently than this.

 

Yelsew, your error is that because he said "to the Jews" you think the truth doesn't refer to anyone else. Scripture elsewhere makes it clear that this truth is a universal truth. He was speaking "to the Jews" because that is who was in front of him. He was not saying "This is not true about anyone else." That is a faulty exegetical method. Scripture confirms for us that this is a universal truth.

 

Translation does not matter, it is thought that matters. If you KJV does not have the same meaning in it then you are misreading the KJV. But for you sake, it is the NJB.

 

Pastor Larry, I presume the only truth you see in that entire passage is "you do not hear" Well there is much more there than you do not hear.

What about the two questions I posed at the end of the quote?

 

Larry, you are missing the whole truth. What is true of one group of people may not be true for another. This is a prime example:

As you can clearly see the Gentiles will hear what the Jews have been hardened to. There is a difference between these two groups at this time in human history and to ignore that is to ignore truth.

 

You presume wrong, and you miss the point of what I said. What I said was that you wrongly interpret this to apply only to the Jews. the rest of Scripture makes it clear that the truth Jesus spoke to the Jews about is true of all men. YOu cannot isolate this from Scripture.

What about it?? Do you think the answers are any different than they were the other times you asked?? Are you any more prepared to hear the answer now than you were then? I doubt it ... and so I will not spend my time answering something that has already been answered multiple times, that you did not receive before.

I didn't miss that. That wasn't my point. As I said, Scripture reveals that what is true of the Jews is true of all men. That is the point you are willingly overlooking because it doesn't fit with your system. You are right. But I never disagreed with that. I was making a different point, unrelated to what you said.

 

You ignored Acts 28:28 which clearly contrasts the Jews ability to hear with that of the Gentiles. Could you deal with that please.

Thanks.

 

Translation does not matter, it is thought that matters. If you KJV does not have the same meaning in it then you are misreading the KJV. But for you sake, it is the NJB. </font>[/QUOTE]It makes a HUGE difference Yelsew, for the purposes of expounding this passage; I would have to go line by line to separate what is fiction in your translation to what is Truth in mine!

 

You ignored Acts 28:28 which clearly contrasts the Jews ability to hear with that of the Gentiles. Could you deal with that please.

Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]Simply this: Prophesy

 

I didn't ignore it. I dealt with it a long time ago. You can probably find it by searching. Thanks.

 

To which Skandelon more than adequately replied

 

Was this true before the Exodus? Was it true before Abraham? Was it true during Noah's days?

Why did God choose the Jews to be HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, if what you say is true?

Why does scripture say that God deals with HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE differently than all others?

Come on, Larry! Give us a break!

 

It is always true. Since the beginning of sin, man has been totally depraved. Don't confuse the condition of man as an individual with the condition of Israel being chosen as a nation. You are confusing yourself by conflating things that are distinct. These two issues are separate issues. We can talk about one or the other, but try to talk about both at the same time. That doesn't work.

 

That sounds to me like double-talk or at the very least a double standard. If what Jesus is saying to the Jews applies to all mankind for all times, then why all the hullaballew about God having a chosen people and treating them differently, more special if you will, than all other men?

The fact is in John 8 Jesus is addressing Jews about a Jewish mindset! He is not talking to Gentiles, because by the Grace of God, the gentiles who will hear what Jesus has to say are now included in the promised SALVATION. Jesus sent His disciples into all the world, making disciples. And they are still going into all the world, and still making disciples, because the gentiles are still HEARING AND BELIEVING UNTO SALVATION, while the JEWs are not! (though more of them outside of Israel seem to be softening a little.)

 

It may sound like double talk but it is not. God's having a chosen nation is entirely different and separate from man being totally depraved. Everyone in the chosen nation is totally depraved. Everyone who is totally depraved is not in the chosen nation.
The inability of the Jews to hear in John was because they had the wrong father (v. 44), just as every other unbeliever does. What is confusing about that?

 

"What is confusing about that?"

These are all your words Larry, and they are each contradictory within themselves. So, I am not sure what you are saying. In one you say that all mankind are the same then you say the Jews are different, Then you say that all who are, are not!

The people in your congregation that are bobbing their heads must be asleep, because they certainly could not follow this line of thinking let alone agree with it.

 

Does that mean the same thing as "smack dab in the middle of" or "Dead center in"

 

I didn't ignore it. I dealt with it a long time ago. You can probably find it by searching. Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]Don't pull this! You deal with things over and over again on this board and you know it. How many times have you answered the same old typical Arminian objections? Yet, to me you say, "I dealt with it...go search." You haven't dealt with it, you ignore it. And the fact that your not willing to take two minutes to deal with it now reveals the truth of my claims.

When someone says, "Why would a Calvinist even bother to witness." Do you respond, "I dealt with that in 1998, go search." Or do you answer? Typically you answer. Why? Because you have dealt with that in your own mind and you are comfortable and secure with your response. The reason you don't deal with this argument is because you don't have a good answer. All your "pat" answers don't work on this question. You're not so secure and comfortable with the issues you never have really dealt with, are you Larry?

Some things never change.

 

I don't see how this answers my argument. Could you please be a bit more forthcoming? Thanks