What type of Baptist are you?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 10, 2007.

?

Are you more of a general or particular Baptist?

  1. Particular

    34 vote(s)
    54.8%
  2. General

    28 vote(s)
    45.2%
  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    THere have been historically two basic types of Baptists as I understand.

    Of course today we have dozens or more different types but still most fall into one of two broad categories:
    1. Particular Baptist
    2. General Baptist

    If you are a baptist then you fall into one of these two.

    The Particular Baptist is one who is calvinistic and believes in a particular atonement.
    In other words, only the predestined will be saved. All others will reject Christ and refuse to believe. In this belief each saved person is saved only because God has chosen him for salvation

    The General Baptist believes in a general atonement.
    One that is not specific but far reaching to anyone and thus predestination is not needed (predestination as Calvinists understand it) but rather each man must choose for himself because all men are equally capable of belief. In this belief each man is saved because he has chosen to receive the free gift of God, offered equally to all men.


    As you can see, these are pretty broad categories and do not address things like OSAS and the like but it is meant to get an idea of which side of the "great theological divide" people are on.
     
  2. Psalm 95

    Psalm 95
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    I been thinking of this question for more than a year.

    While I was initially more on the general side, I am getting more and more respect for the particular baptists.
     
  3. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Same here, I was just like you though I have come far enough that I now consider myself to be a particular baptist.
    It is really refreshing. I battled with it for so long.
    I knew the Bible supported it but I felt so pressured by those that did not believe it.
    God had to take me through circumstances to really show me who the Boss was.

    I am so glad He did.
     
  4. JDale

    JDale
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    Be careful Luke. There is great power in the DARK SIDE....

    :laugh:

    JDale
     
  5. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Is Psalm 95 named Luke?
     
  6. SBCPreacher

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    I just figured that saved baptist would be one of the options. Boy was I surprised.
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    its neck and neck.
     
  8. tinytim

    tinytim
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    I'm a good Baptist.....

    My way is always right!!! lol

    Seriously, I am a General Baptist with Calvinistic leanings based on the way I understand the foreknowledge of God within and without the concept of Time....
     
  9. StefanM

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    This needs a little clarification. Each person is enabled to believe through the grace of God (often called prevenient grace) that reaches every person. An individual is not inherently capable of belief, being dead in sin.

    If a person is said to have the inherent ability to come to Christ, then that's very close to Pelagianism.

    ---from a believer in general atonement :)
     
  10. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Call me a Reformed Baptist Minister.
     
  11. Dale-c

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    Yes it is. I meant to make it a public poll but I forgot.

    SO few people want to be pinned down on a particular systematic doctrine that I thought this was a good way to make it broad enough to get a lot of people to answer.
    So far it seems to have gone over fairly well.
     
  12. Dale-c

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    What would be the point of that? We should all be saved baptists.
    I hope that is the case.
    THe point is, what is our belief on the reason that we made our decision to follow CHrist? Was it up to us to make the deciding point or was it up to God who foreordained us to salvation?

    Was our choice a resistible one or was God's convicting power irresistible?
     
  13. Allan

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    Dale, why do you do this. You know that is not even remotely a true statement.

    You 'seem' to consistantly miscommunicate the views about what others believe who are not Calvinistic (when you declare for them their view). Predestination IS apart of our theology but it is not defined in the same way Calvinists do. And thus it IS needed but not viewed the same way, so it isn't that it is not needed but that we see your view as being incorrectly seen or understood as we understand it. Just like you do ours. :)

    You keep trying to make it sound like we non-cals hold - man on his own decides to come to God and God looks down and says "wow, come on in". What you keep ascibing to the non-cal position is strictly Pelagin. That being: Man comes to God without the Gods intervention, and though Grace is benifical it is not necessary. So when man comes to God and tells God to save him, God is obligated. THUS NO NEED FOR PREDESTINATION in any sense.

    And please don't say then most are semi-Pels either, because that just shows (as most do) the limited understanding of the view of Semi-Pel. Its founding principle is based off the core tenent on Pels: Man comes to God and God responds. But their belief STARTS with the fact that man desides to come to God on his own, but since he can't get there God gives him grace to help him fulfill his desire AND THEN rewards man with salvation. Man determines to be saved apart from God and due to this man gets rewarded, and God is just his little helper. THUS STILL NO NEED FOR PREDESTINATION in any sense.

    Since those not particular are general baptists we do not hold to either of the above. Though some general baptists are Arminian (and I would say the closest to a biblical format though still lacking, would be Classical), most general baptists are not.

    PLEASE be more graceful in giving others view.

    Back to the OP:
    Both groups believe in predestination and that it is vital. We just have differing views on it purpose.

    Please remember that many Calvinists and Reformed alike hold that Christ died for all but specifically redeemed the Elect. Please don't say this difference is only between General and Particular or C/A, when many of the Cal's held that same position of Christ death being for all mankind. (though it was specifically applied to the elect who were predestined in your view)

    I don't want to turn this from the OP, so please go to some good sources of the Majority of the Baptist Non-Cal view and just do a cut and paste so others see this view without the tinting of prejudice against.

    But unless you are a Calvinist or Reformed you will always be Particular, and the same is true in the opposite.

    Basically what you are asking is who is Calvinistic and who is not.

    I'm not (in the strictest 5 pont sense) and therefore - General.
     
    #13 Allan, Aug 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2007
  14. Dale-c

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    Allan, please reread my OP.
    Notice I said Predestination as calvinists understand it.
    It is obvious that you believe in predestination because you believe in the Bible and it is there.

    I was trying to be as graceful as possible.
    I know that many believe that man is born incapable of choosing God but that God give each man a chance at some point in his life and that man can make a decision at that point.
    But no matter how you look at it, it comes down to one of two things:
    Either every instance of salvation is predetermined by the decree of God or it is determined (pr predetermined as the case may be) by mans choice.

    There are many subviews within these main two realms.
    That is not the point of this thread.
    This is really not even meant to be much of a debate but to assist with other discussions.

    Also, I have not singled out anyone. No one is forcing anyone to participate in this poll and thread, unless of course you believe you were predestined to do it :)
     
  15. Dale-c

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    That is exactly what I am asking.
    Wow, it is impossible to state it in ANYWAY without someone crying foul that they are being misrepresented.
    But yes, by the end of your post you got it.
    I just wanted to know who was calvinistic and who was not.
    You are not. That is all I wanted to know.
    The specifics have and will be hashed out in other threads.

    And once again, please note that I stated "as calvinists understand predestination"
     
  16. Dale-c

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    What is not true about it? Did you read the entire statement?
     
  17. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    I'm just ME

    I'm currently a member of an SBC church..came from and Independent background and still lean in that direction. But...in the context of this thread I'm GENERALLY not PARTICULAR:laugh: ... I'm baptistic in my doctrine but I'll admit I have (as I get older,both age-wise and in the Lord) a growing disdain for any LOYALTY to any denomination. I much prefer to regard myself as a loyal ( to God and His Word) Bible Believing CHRISTIAN. I'm neither a calvinist nor an arminian.I don't believe in a limited atonement any more than I believe in this unscriptural "easy-believism" of our day. I personally believe that there is SOME biblical truth presented in both those positions....but also some error THEREFORE, I'll trust in the Lord and His Word and not follow after the vain traditions and theological positions of men. Salvation will only come to the heart that truly believes that the Bible is indeed the Word of God,that Jesus Christ is the sinless Son of God as well as God in the flesh,and that He suffered,shed His Blood and died on Calvary to pay for our sins,and rose from the dead three days later to finish the work of redemption for mankind. That is the Gospel and it is available to "whosoever will" believe. The Holy Spirit dwells in each born again saint to point us to Christ and conform us to His image as taught in Galatians 5. God Bless Ya'll.

    Greg Perry Sr.:type: :saint:
     
  18. 4boys4joys

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    Scripture

    Romans 8:29 says...

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (KJV).

    God in his fore knowledge knew about us all, it says here that he predestinated those he had knowledge of. Explain to me how God did not have knowledge of some, or how we can be predestined if God himself says that he predestinated all that he knew of before ?

    We all have the opportunity to get saved. God already knows who will and who will not. We do not know, and that is where the choice comes. Just like Adam and Eve. He did not predestine them to sin but he gave them the choice. All of us who are are saved are predestined but we did not know that and that is where the whosoever part of becoming saved comes from.

    Saying some are chosen is like saying that God predestined them to sin. It is a sin to reject Christ and it is hard to believe that God would predestine any one to sin.
    This is the way I see scripture.

    When I voted I voted particular unaware of what that meant. I thought it meant something else. I am a general based on what the OP said is general. I believe that God has a plan for our life that is his ultimate will and then the will gets altered as we make decisions that go for or against that will. God's ultimate will for Adam and Eve was to obey they did not. He had a plan for that choice and he also had a plan for the other. If he did not there would be no choice, just reactions to what he already knew that we would do. If not ,then why even give the choice?

    Any thoughts please. Not to sway me. Just to discuss. No one will sway. But conversation is good.:)
     
    #18 4boys4joys, Aug 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2007
  19. Allan

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    I did, and that is why I commented on it because you gave your view as you believe it and then an incorrect summation of the other.
    This is what I was refering to. You speak with a distinct and condesending bias so you don't articulate it as it is actually believed, but you articulate it from how YOU see it through your view and not as it is actually held by the other.

    To say the least :laugh:

    I agree and that is why I went back to the topic of the OP.

    What discussions? Are you telling me you don't know who on here is Calvinistic and who is not? If that is what you were trying to get at then do a poll that says: Are you a Calvinist or Not:thumbs:

    You were not singling out anyone specifically but you were in 'General' at the belief you do not see. Was I Predestined, yes- but not predetermind. They are not the same things :)
     
  20. Allan

    Allan
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    One does not need to cry 'foul' if one is represented properly.
    You of all people aught to know that. Think of how many times someone has misrepresented your view, and you came on and cried 'foul' as well. You didn't whine about, but tried to correct what was given incorrectly. That is all I did.

    But why did you not just ask the question plainly:

    Are you a Calvinist, and to what degree; (the ask something like)
    1 Are you a 5 point
    2 Are you a 4 point
    3 Are you a 3 point
    4 Are you a 2 point
    5 Are you a 1 pont
    ?? There is no point, I'm not one :laugh:
     

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