What was Jesus like before he came down to earth?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Was he a spirit and didn't have a real look or form and only when he came down to earth he finally got his body which also serves as an expression of who he is and now he will have this kind of body forever? Or did Jesus always have a body and he always looked the way he looks now? Does the bible say anything about this? I mean why do humans look the way they look? Do we look the way we look because Jesus looked like a human before God created humans?
    But if Jesus always had a body then it's also kinda hard to understand why he looked this way. I mean why does he have 5 fingers and 2 arms and so on? Why should Jesus have had a shape while the Father who is spirit doesn't have a shape? Or does he also have a shape? :confused:
    I just ask myself wether Jesus can take on any form he wants and wether he looks the way he does because of us, in order to relate to us, or wether we look the way we do because of him, because God says let us make man in our image. Does this refer to the shape of Jesus? And because Jesus looks like a human God created humans in the same shape?
     
    #1 xdisciplex, Aug 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2006
  2. music4Him

    music4Him
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Alot of your questions can be answered in the first chapter of Genesis.
    Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Gen 1:26
    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    As for you title question "What was Jesus like before he came down to earth?"

    He has never been a "what" but a "who"...Jesus is the son of God and will always be. But of course you know that. :thumbs:

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Um....
    when God created man male and female in his image does this mean that God is both male and female? I mean what is God? Is he male? :confused:
    I also don't want to have a primitive view of God like Copeland who imagines God to be 6 foot tall and to weigh 180 pounds. I think this is pretty ridiculous.
     
  4. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Image is mistranslated by most. God does not have a physical body. God's image is one of supreme intellect and immortality.

    God created adam as an immortal. The Tree of Life provided this immortality. God gave Adam the potential to grow in intellect.
     
    #4 Inquiring Mind, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2006
  5. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    But this would mean that Jesus didn't look the way he looks now before he came down because now he has a body and a face. Did Jesus design his own body? Supposing Jesus did not have a body before he came down does this mean he designed his own body and determined how he would look like?
     
  6. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible is quiet on this issue. We have no proof that Jesus did or did not have a body prior to being born. All we can say for sure is that he existed. Nothing else can be gleaned.
     
  7. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess ultimatively the question can be boiled down to wether Jesus was a spirit before he came down or wether he has always been a man. :confused:
    But the bible says Jesus came into the flesh, this sounds like he didn't have a body before. :confused:
     
  8. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, it is one of those great mysteries.

    Nicene Creeds says he became man, so theological deduction was made at the coucil of nicea that he did not have a body, maybe?
     
  9. DeeJay

    DeeJay
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is my opinion that Jesus was Spirit before the incarnation. I gather this by the way the Bible words things like He became man. He made Himself lower then the angles.

    I dont know if there is any hard evidence but this is what I think.

    However if it is true like some specualte, that Melkesdic (sp?) was Jesus then that throws a wrench into my speculation.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0


    Jesus incarnated - that means to take on a body. Jn 1.14 also tells us this - Jesus did not have a human body before his birth. That is why it's called the incarnation.

    Before the incarnation, Jesus did not have a human body and was not a man.

     
  11. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    How can you believe that Jesus has not always been God / Man? We see numerous times in the OT where The Angel of the Lord appeared in human form...ate...walked. He was Deity, and since God the Father is Spirit...and the Holy Spirit is obviously Spirit, who would The Angel of God have been? You tread slippery ground to state that how Christ exists now, He has not always existed.

    I take the phrase "becoming flesh" to mean that He became something with the capability to experience death, as the greek for flesh means basically "meat". Meat dies. When we die, our bodies will be transformed, but they will still be bodies. We will not be "flesh", however, as we will not be able to die again.
     
  12. Joe90

    Joe90
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    xdesciplex:

    "Was he a spirit and didn't have a real look or form and only when he came down to earth he finally got his body"

    Are you assuming that a spirit is formless, simply because we cannot see one with our own fallible human eyes? When he came to Earth He became HUMAN FLESH but before that he was still the same Son of God.

    Are you the just the flesh machine you walk around in or are you not actually a spirit dwelling in that flesh?

    Deejay:

    "However if it is true like some specualte, that Melkesdic (sp?) was Jesus then that throws a wrench into my speculation."

    Melchesedek couldn't be Jesus because Hebrews the 7th chapter states that he was without mother or father (Jesus is a Son therefore he had to have a father) beginning of days nor end of life. Have a think about who an eternal being with no mother nor father might be...
     
  13. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0


    Appearing is not the same as incarnating. Angels appeared as men but they were never men. The incarnation happened as John 1 and other passages say, at a certain point in time. This is consistent with 2,000 yrs of Christian belief and teaching.



    You are treading slippery ground to deny John 1 - "and the Word became flesh." Also, Hebrews 2.





    Jesus became fully man. He added a human nature and human body when he incarnated.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please explain how a spirit walked with Adam in the garden? How do angels and The Angel of God eat without physical bodies?
    You must not have read what I said about the word "flesh" too well. I never denied John 1, so please reflect my position accurately.
    Jesus became hu-man. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Your view doesn't support this.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    While not men, they most certainly have bodies. Jacob wrestled with The Angel of God" (deity). You don't wrestle with spirits but matter.
     
  16. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why couldn't a spirit walk with Adam? Wasn't this God? God does not have a body. Angels appeared with bodies but they did not become human. We are not told what the bodies of angels are, but they are not human bodies. Angels are a separate category of beings; angels are called spirits in the OT and in the NT (book of Hebrews).

    Becoming flesh means Jesus incarnated. Please study what incarnation means - it means Jesus became a man. Becoming human is the same thing. Jesus was not a man before the incarnation. I believe that his appearances in the OT were done as the angels' appearances were - temporary human appearance and body. That is not an incarnation.

    You seem to be ignoring Hebrews 2, which tells us in God's words that Jesus became like his brothers. He became. That means he was not always that way.

    Every church and theology I've encountered, including my pastor and seminary, teach that Jesus' incarantion was adding on a human nature and human body.

    Angels may have bodies, but they are not human bodies, and their physicality is not explained in the Bible. But we know they are not men in the sense of being human.

    I may bring this up as a thread in Baptist Theology, although sometimes I'm disappointed there in the very unbiblical views proposed by some Baptists.
     
  17. DeeJay

    DeeJay
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0


    I do not know enough to have a complete opinion on Melchesedek. But the point you make about him not having a mother or father is the same point people who believe Mel was Jesus use.

    Several points here:

    First every created being has a mother and father. There is only one being that has not been created and that is God. So if Mel does not have a mother or father He is God. Jesus is God.

    Second Jesus is a Son and has a Father but not in a creation sence. His Sonship is used to show his inheratence. Jesus in eternal and not procreated by anybody. So Jesus has not mother or father in the sense of pro-creation.

    If you are saying that Mel is God the Father? God the Father is Spirit. And the part of Him that is body is named Jesus. Unless you are saying Mel is a fourth personage of the same God. Making God a Quad God. I have never heard of the Quadune God.

    Reading Webdogs post above. I am finding it likely that Mel was Christ in His heavenly body. Having a body but not become flesh yet.
     
  18. DeeJay

    DeeJay
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Web

    I have not thought of it like this before. But it makes alot of sence. I have wondered about this and in the past could only speculate that Jesus was Spirit before the incarnation. But I think you are right on this.

    Just to be sure. You are saying that before Jesus came to earth He had a body that was like His reserected body that assended to Heaven? It was not flesh but it had a human form.

    Thanks
     
  19. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deejay, Jesus did not have a human body before the incarnation! This would mean he was a created being. All human bodies are created. Jesus became a man, according to John 1, Hebrews 2, and other passages. That is what the incarnation means.

    Please see comments on this thread in the Baptist Theology and Bible Study forum where the issue is being discussed:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=849059#post849059
     
  20. DeeJay

    DeeJay
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    0
    Disclamer; I am listining to all sides, because I am still makeing up my mind.

    Marcia, I can see where you are comeing from that Jeuss did not have a HUMAN body. I dont think Webdog is saying that.

    Is it possable that the personage of the Godhead we know as Jesus was shaped like a human. Not human but had a form that looked human before He became flesh.
     

Share This Page

Loading...