What was the Holy Grail?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Ignazio_er, Dec 31, 2003.

  1. Ignazio_er

    Ignazio_er
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    Does anybody here know what is, according to some historians? Hint: they think it's a vessel of some sort, but not the cup from the last supper.
     
  2. Johnv

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    According to some historians? Historians don't generally believe that any articles mentioned have survived to the present day. Now if you're talking about folklorists, that would be different.

    The Holy Grail is said by legend to be the cup with caught the blood which spilled from Jesus' side at the crucifixion.

    BTW - the cup used for the above is supposed to be the same cup used at the last supper by Jesus. You're probably referring to some folklorists who think the last supper cup and the crucufuxion cup are two different cups.

    In either event, there's no support, other than legend, to think that a cup really caught Jesus' blood, or that either this cup or the last supper cup exists to this day.
     
  3. Ignazio_er

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    Good guess, but no. :D

    Hint number 2: their theories have generated lots of controversy, angering many Christians, especiallly Catholics.
     
  4. Singleman

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    I guess you're talking about the wacky theory that Jesus was married and produced children, and that the "holy bloodline" is the Grail. Nonsense concocted to sell books.
     
  5. Ignazio_er

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    Yep. The grail was supposedly Jesus' wife Mary Magdelene and Joseph of Arimathea brought her to France.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Well, if ANY of that is truth, then the Gospels LIE and the message of the NT is foolishness.

    Besides some weird sects (there are good representatives of such groups posting on this forum), who would believe such a load of tripe?
     
  7. Ignazio_er

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    Those people are pretty wacky. They believe a secret society has been hiding documents for about 1200 years now that prove M. Mag. is Jesus's bride. The fact that there is absolutely no physical evidence these documents exist only strengthens their belief (kind of like UFO nuts). Judging by the number of books on the subject (including some best sellers) it seems like a lot of people believe it, even some well educated ones.

    The story goes that once Constantine "legalized" Christianity, the RCC went on a rampage destroying all the documentation proving Jesus had children. Before this, allegedly, nobody thought of Jesus as anything more than a mere human, no hint of His divinity. Hundreds of years later some folks in Jesus bloodline discovered a trove of documents and Magdelene's bones (finding them was the real reason for the crusades).
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Is this part of the Jesus Seminar? It sure sounds right up their liberal anti-Christ agenda ally.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Johnv

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    It's not heretical to think that Jesus might have been married, but the bible implies that Jesus might have been single. Had Jesus had a wife (married men generally don't ascribe themselves to not having a place to lay their heads), I think it would have stated it succunctly.
     
  10. Ignazio_er

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    It's more than Jesus just being married. The story goes that she was pregnant, and that His bloodline still exists today. The recent best seller "The DaVinci Code" was about it.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Some days the things I learn on the BB make me scratch my head and wonder! Thanks for sharing.

    Maybe Jesus Christ Superstar's love ballad by Mary was likewise influenced?
     
  12. superdave

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    "He's already got one"
    "May we come up and see it"
    "No"
    "Why Not?"
    "Because you are English Types"

    (couldn't resist ;) )

    Seriously, though, Monty Python's Holy Grail is as accurate historically as many of the modern myth surrounding the Life of Christ

    Someone at work was telling me how fascinating the DaVinci Code was and that I should read it.

    I am going to read it, but is this some of the rubbish that it contains? It certainly didn't look like a reliable historical treatise at first glance.
     
  13. Ignazio_er

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    It is a good book.

    If you really want to know how these people think I suggest reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail. You'll walk away with a good understanding of the theory and also a good appreciation for how it's held together by supposition and speculation without any actual evidence.
     
  14. Daisy

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    That was more than a good guess - it is one theory, even if it's not the one you meant.

    Mary and Judas both sang the same love song in Jesus Christ Superstar.
     
  15. Dan Stiles

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    Before the "DaVinci Code" there was "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," a book that goes into more detail about the theory, including great conspiracies throughout history.
     
  16. LadyEagle

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    Here's the link I posted in my Grail thread:

    http://www.timelessmyths.com/arthurian/grail.html#Background

    It is very interesting but I didn't see anything about Mary Magdalene in it, just a lot about English history, aka King Arthur and Knights of the Round Table, etc. A lot to read, though.

    While we may laugh about legends such as this and have a good time poking fun, there may be some serious things to consider, as well.

    I have had a book for several years, written by J.R. Church, an ordained Baptist pastor, educated at Tennessee Temple, who wrote a fascinating book about the Holy Grail. He is no quack.

    Here is a review of his book from a Christian web site:

    http://www.cuttingedge.org/review/rv107.html

    Occultism is on a steady rise. Proof of this is that the Da Vinci Code has been on the Top Bookseller list for a long time. Da Vinci was an occultist besides being considered as one of the great Masters.

    Another comment about the "nobility of Europe." Some of our own US Presidents (Globalists, too) trace their blood line back to the European Nobility - The Bush Family for one! :eek:

    When I am with the Lord, I want to see the WHOLE WORLD HISTORY (THE TRUTH) from both the Spiritual and Physical realms - the way it all REALLY WENT DOWN from the beginning. That should occupy a bit of eternity, reviewing all those DVDs, LOL.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Huh? :confused:

    I have had a book for several years, written by J.R. Church, an ordained Baptist pastor, educated at Tennessee Temple, who wrote a fascinating book about the Holy Grail. He is no quack.[/QUOTE]

    [​IMG] I was waiting for the punchline. Didn't he also write prophecy in the psalms where he attempted to show how each of the chapters of Psalms corresponding with a fullfilled prophecy of the corresponding year in the 1900's? I used to have that book. What a joke. [​IMG]

    Too bad too many well meaning Christians fall for this tripe, clinging to the wisdom of this world, instead of just reading the Bible and accepting it for what it says.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Johnv

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    I don't think it's occultism, it's just an excuse to sell books and make a quick buck.

    As I stated elsewhere, the idea that Jesus might have been married is certainly not heretical. But, I believe the bible implies that he was not. Jesus was most likely single, since biblical evidence to the contrary is lacking.

    Now, as to whether or not Jesus had feelings for a woman? He was fully a human male, so I'd say probably. He probably had a cruch on someone in the equivalent of his high school days. He probably got acne. He probably caught colds. He probably had dirty diapers that his mother had to change when he was a baby. It seems almost irreverent to think of him in those terms, doesn't it? Probably becaise we tend to deify him to the point where we often downplay his humanity. But that's a different topic altogether.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Well, Joseph, too bad you are so quick to dismiss some things as tripe.

    Pastor Church may have set some dates for future events (which were wrong), but that doesn't invalidate the fact that some of the Psalms are prophetic.

    Here is a book review about his book on the Psalms from Amazon.com:

    (sigh) I suppose some things are way too deep for some people to grasp, especially if they don't fit into a preconceived notion.

    I personally wouldn't consider his work as "clinging to the wisdom of the world" as you put it, quite the contrary. I would even be willing to wager (if I were the wagering kind), that Pastor Church has probably studied the Scripture more in depth than some on here who make these caustic comments, by virtual of the age difference alone.

    Now the Da Vinci Codes - that IS clinging to the wisdom of the world, and I would agree about that.
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    You can't be serious, I hope. :(
     

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