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What Wins a Debate?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by John of Japan, Nov 25, 2010.

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Does abrasiveness help in a debate?

  1. Yes, abrasiveness helps win a debate.

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%

  2. Abrasiveness neither helps nor harms your cause.

    3 vote(s)
    9.7%

  3. No, abrasiveness harms your position in a debate.

    19 vote(s)
    61.3%

  4. I don't know.

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%

  5. Other

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #41 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  2. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    And I stand by it with the one clarification because of the stigma associated with the word "abrasive" that I prefer bluntness and frankness.

    But John, whether you like it or not Jesus was EXTRAORDINARILY abrasive at times.

    I have not yet called you a whited sepulcher or a viper. I have not yet told you that you make your proselytes two fold the child of hell.

    And if you want to cling to the argument that Jesus only did that because he was God and he could, then you are going to have an extremely hard time dealing with the fact that every other major godly Bible character was well nigh as abrasive.

    John R. Rice was at times wasn't he, John?

    You have been abrasive today.

    It is time for you to yield, John. You cannot argue against abrasiveness while utilizing it to win an argument.
     
    #42 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yea, and I think that also is a very solid argument, John. I stand by it. BTW, it is an argument that you never addressed, if I recall- I think because you cannot. It is going to be awful hard for you to deal with the fact that our Bible is full of heroes like Elijah who humiliated their adversaries and Stephen whose wisdom could not be resisted by those he debated and it made them so angry they started a thread and tried to stone him off of Baptist board- ooops!! I mean they stoned him to death.:tongue3:

    I am simply clarifying on this thread that I prefer the terms blunt and frank because of a stigma that has been connected to the word- "abrasive".
     
    #43 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Ahhh! See there! Admitting you are wrong is not that hard is it? I am very proud of you, John. This is the first day of the rest of your life.:applause:

    I am just kidding.

    Respond to the argument in post # 35, will you please?
     
    #44 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    #45 John of Japan, Nov 27, 2010
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    No, I do not agree that Jesus could ever be called abrasive. But we're talking about debate. Please show me one time in Scripture when Jesus actually debated. The common people saw that Jesus spoke with authority and not as the scribes.

    By your own definition, in which people start equal in a debate, Jesus did not debate. As King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He taught, he commanded, He rebuked, but He did not debate.
    We are discussing debate. Please give me an example from Scripture of where Paul, for one, was abrasive when he debated. Then we can go from there.
    He was human. He made mistakes. But let's stick to Scripture, shall we?
     
    #46 John of Japan, Nov 27, 2010
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I see nothing in post #35 but opinion. Opinion is worthless in a debate. What we need are facts and logic and various forms of proof.

    Scripture is where I want to discuss debating. Consider Paul's advice to Timothy about how to correct those who disagre with him in 2 Timothy 2:
    The principles for debate I see here are:
    (1) Choose your debate. Many things are not worth it. (Boy could some use that advice on the BB!)
    (2) Knowledge is important. "Unlearned" could be translated as "ignorant." As I've said before (and you never interacted with it; can you agree?), knowledge and wisdom are power according to Prov. 24:5.
    (3) Don't argue: be patient and gentle with your opponent in a debate (no abrasiveness there!).
    (4) Have as your goal the acknowledgement of the truth of the opponent. Abrasiveness will not help here. It repels the opponent.
     
    #47 John of Japan, Nov 27, 2010
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #48 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    That's hilarious John. You reprimand post #35 as opinion and then tell us what debate is based solely on nothing but opinion.

    You will not address post #35 because you can't. It is a solid argument.
     
    #49 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #50 Luke2427, Nov 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2010
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Fine. i'll deal with your post 35. Where is the Scripture behind this?
    Where is the Scripture behind this?
    I agree totally. But abrasiveness is by definition rude.
    Where is the Scripture for this?
    Where is the Scripture for this?
     
    #51 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2010
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    #52 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Now, please answer my #47, which is directly from Scripture.
     
    #53 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I will gladly as soon as you let me know if you are going to accept the challenge or not.
     
    #54 Luke2427, Nov 28, 2010
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    #55 Luke2427, Nov 28, 2010
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't have a dog in this fight...but to annoy or cause ill will or be overly aggressive is not being rude? Isn't it synonymous? ;) :laugh:
     
    #56 webdog, Nov 28, 2010
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I can't find your original challenge. But you are entirely welcome to try to prove from the original language of Scripture that Jesus, Paul, et al were abrasive. I will admit you are correct if you prove your point--but you will not be the judge of whether or not you were correct. It would be pretty stupid of me to give the position of judge to my opponent in a debate! :tongue3:

    If you can find someone on the BB skilled in the original languages to judge between our points, I would accept that. In the meantime, please answer my Scriptural points from 2 Timothy.
     
    #57 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    post # 50

    respond that you will yield the way it is stated there and I will both address your arguments out of post # 47 and prove that Jesus and Paul debated according to the original languages and were harsh and rough and aggressive (which is the definition of abrasive).
     
    #58 Luke2427, Nov 28, 2010
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Oh really? You don't consider this to be rudeness?? I certainly do!

    Here is another definition.
    I'm amazed that you think Jesus was "harsh and rough in manner," and that you think we should be that way. Paul spoke of the "gentleness and meekness" of Christ (2 Cor. 10:1), and said that "the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (2 Tim. 2:24). James said that "the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated" (James 3:17). These are all the opposite of what you are advocating.
     
    #59 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I already said I would--if you find a third party judge who is qualified in the original languages. Go ahead. Have at it.
     
    #60 John of Japan, Nov 28, 2010
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