What Would You Do IF this Comes to Fruition Worldwide & You're Persecuted to Accept?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Jul 25, 2011.

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What Would You Do?

  1. Lord Willing, I would oppose worldwide enforcement of this.

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%
  2. I believe 1 Cor. 15:50 and Gal. 5:21, thus this agenda is NOT God's Kingdom.

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  3. I stand with the worldwide effort, it's what God wants.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I stand with the worldwide effort and against those who oppose it.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. This worldwide agenda is man ushering in His Kingdom via God.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. This is absolutely deceptive and is not representative of God's Kingdom nor is it His doing.

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  7. This peace & unity agenda is Gospel, and what God meant to happen, opposers will be excluded.

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  8. I would preach this in my church that my church needs to see this movement as His Kingdom.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. I will stand against those who stand against this peace effort.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. This is Satans way of eclipsing truth and Christianity & supplanting it with a false "peace."

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Each of us are aware of tolerance and political correctness eclipsing our nation and world. The push is for a world without “hate,” and for acceptance of diversity on all levels (save one group), and for unity, and peace. This propaganda is being taught from elementary education and into our universities. I say it is filled with hypocrisy and is not as it appears. Folks in church have expressed some concern about this problem.

    At first glance this may seem good and acceptable, but in light of holiness, God’s purpose, sin, judgment to come, and righteousness, something is definitely amiss.

    Love, acceptance, peace and tolerance of each and every(?) lifestyle is being preached from many venues; from Hollywood stars to even our neighbors and other activist groups to tolerate and accept almost anything, except, of course holiness, God, and His Word. Hostility towards what is good, and against those who embrace a Biblical “good” is becoming increasingly more prevalent. Biblical morality is not tolerated, since it in itself is viewed as hate. The world system wants to erase this and supplant this with man’s version of peace and unity.

    Seemingly eventually only one group will not be tolerated. Things that believers stand against are being pressed upon them and especially upon their children. To disagree with such things is asking to be ridiculed and persecuted. We are being pressed into the mold of the world and must reject this as Romans 12:1 instructs us.

    I don’t believe for a moment that any of the above is truly “love” and truly “peace” but is in general an appeasement, as those who preach these things also share a certain amount of detestation for any person who does not accept their position, or tolerate what they tolerate. Rather, I believe it is an incentive to rid the world of all things God, for the sake of peace, while at the same time some proponents thereof may be thinking they are doing God a service. But I don’t believe that all persons think this is ridding the world of all things God, since some groups could merely see this as advancement of the Kingdom and of God’s program. Just think of liberal theology, for instance.

    Now, onto some theological a views; Dominion Theology, Kingdom Now theology, Reconstructionism, and hyper-preterist views all accept to an extent that either right now is the Kingdom of God though not perfect and complete, and/or believe somehow governments or other means will usher in the perfect, completed Kingdom, the former believing this will take place via Christians in public office using theocratic law &c. This is akin to 1 Corinthians 15:24, the delivering up of this world to God by Christ, as a “spiritualized” fulfillment of that, or that it will bring the Second Coming of Christ, depending upon who you talk to, or what you read or listen to.

    I don't see Christianity eclipsing this world, I see the opposite, but I can see that others may feel this "peace love and unity" as the true "Gospel."

    Will then, liberal theology, Reconstructionism, Dominion Theology, Kingdom Now theology, hyper-preterist views, or types of this, and/or other theologies ecumenize and embrace the current tolerant political agenda of the world, for peace and harmony, as simply Gods way of bringing in His rule onto earth in a “spiritual” sense? And, will the more conservative of the groups drop their biblical views against sin &c to help this come to fruition, for the sake of peace, unity and harmony?

    Is this what God’s Kingdom is to be in all its glory? Is the world’s tolerant view culminating into all that God meant His kingdom to be, or is this just plain error and deception going the route of perhaps a neo-Babel?

    Is this God’s program in a nutshell, to bring all peoples, repentant and not, into unity and harmony, peace and unity, while wicked and those yet unregenerate sinners, show forth that conservative Biblical Christians just have it all wrong?

    Could some of the above theological camps accept this type of worldwide political mission (tolerance, acceptance, peace, unity) as being used to establish the “spiritual kingdom of God” in full order, and attempt to force this upon Churches as a new kind of Gospel? Is this what God is using to bring in full form His Spiritual and eternal Kingdom, as some of them believe it will come about (via politics, governments, even military)?

    Can you see other believers being persecuted for not accepting this “spiritualized kingdom” while instead awaiting literal fulfillment of the Second Coming? Would it be easy for the above proponents to mock and jeer and persecute these because they can’t “see” that what they are doing is ushering in this peaceful, tolerant, and unified new world and kingdom? How could any person justify standing against a peace, tolerance, and unity movement, especially if it is being instituted as a worldwide system? How could it ever be justified that one would stand against this?
    I believe none of this to be far-fetched as I see anti-biblical preaching that is against repentance, and not for peace, but appeasement, to the disdain of those who hold to holiness, Biblical authority, and to a kingdom of righteousness, not a kingdom of tolerance.

    What, I ask, would you do? Where do you make your stand against this, if you would at all? Where do you make your stand against being forced by societal influences and government to believe some things are good that are clearly evil, and to believe the world’s way, or be counted an enemy of peace, and suffer dire consequences for it?

    What would you do if you were being forced to drop your Christian beliefs and accept the above as your mode of conduct and religion?

    Are the above to be seen as peaceful, loving folks ushering in Gods Kingdom, or is there something more sinister going on behind the scenes?

    - Peace and Grace to His
     
  2. glfredrick

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    The Bible is filled with prophecies of "false peace" that is not the shalom of God. The shalom peace of God does not come from external events, it comes when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit in our salvation, and we have a new, righteous, heart that makes us joint heirs and sons of God.

    The enemy works to counterfeit this shalom peace of God at every turn, offering very human attempts to create utopia (a restoration of the Garden in concept) ala the people of Babel, who thought that through very human means they could achieve something that only God could provide.

    This counterfeiting includes ecumenicalism, political peace (and offers), wars to secure peace, peace through financial security (weird, since the Word is so adamant that all earthly wealth will be burned up as hay, straw, and rubble), and peace through relationships that are not godly, but rather driven by fleshly passions. The more we strive for these very earthly counterfeits, the less we focus on the Lord of Peace who is the One who can ultimately give us what we so greatly desire.

    True peace comes when we are, through Christ, redeemed, reunited, restored, re-created, repentant, reconciled, rebuild, reclaim, repair, and ultimately, have a a place for us "reserved" and a "reward" that we could never earn!
     
  3. Gina B

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    Look around. We're getting pretty close to what you described. Biblical morality is mocked and stating sin as sin or bucking against it is slowing becoming criminal in some areas...and more quickly than others.

    Being forced to give up Christianity as a whole? Nobody can force what's in the heart. They can force what we say and do, but not what we believe. I have no clue what I'd do if it came to a choice between verbally/publicly denying my faith or being persecuted/in pain. I'd love to say that I'd go all and be a martyr for the cause of Christ, sounds real nice and all but I don't know if I'd be able to handle the results. Maybe I could if my kids were not involved, but it's really easy to control someone when you threaten their children. And personally? I'm really annoyed with a paper cut on my finger right now and I'm really claustrophobic so getting beat or threatened with jail might just make me agreeable to just about anything.

    I doubt anyone can honestly answer that question unless they've been there. The best of intentions usually don't play any role how we actually react in crisis situations. I freeze in stupid little situations but am cool, calm and collected during emergencies. (then freak out afterward) Until I came across my first emergency situation, I assumed that because of my personality, I'd freeze and be helpless. Total opposite when actually faced with it though.
     
  4. preacher4truth

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    Amen, good message!

    Hey, do you think possibly this could come to some head, as in the OP, and we'll be forced to accept, or else, maybe under some world figure/person behind and heading all of this?

    Do you think world religions and "the church" (what the world sees as the church) would also try to help facilitate this, thinking they are doing God a service in this endeavor?

    - Peace
     
  5. preacher4truth

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    I agree it is difficult to answer as it is hypothetical and not real.

    However, I do believe He would give grace at that time to endure.

    All of this, I thought is thought provoking discussion. One of my aims in this is to also expose that some believe we will usher in the kingdom to full extent, and that the kingdom is already here anyhow. I think tendencies to buy into that belief will lend themselves to more readily accept mans agenda, and see it as Gods "plan" and extension of His "invisible" reign.

    I think we should be very cautious with that altogether. It could be that strong delusion, or part of it.

    - Peace
     
  6. J.D.

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    Brother, I've been thinking about doing some posting on Reconstructionism, which I will do if the Lord give me liberty, as I have seen it mischaracterized repeatedly on BB. If you understood it you would not mention it in the same breath with liberalism. It is not a government-drivin revival campaign or forced-conversion program as many have characterized it. In fact, it is anti-centralization in it's view of government, and it's weapons are "not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds."

    In fact I'm becoming more and more convinced that Reconstruction is the only hope for this world. Why are there so many Christians in America and yet the liberals and atheists rule? The answer is found in modern fundamental Christianities forsaking of God's Law and the entire scope of it's influence. When Christians say things like "I'm not interested in all that Old Testament stuff, just tell me about the love of Jesus", the world joins in chorus. But one of the purposes of God's Law is to "restrain evil".

    Unbelievers have no fear of God's Law because believers have no fear of God's Law. So they are emboldened in their sins. They believe they have the right to rule because Christians told them so.

    And Theonomists - oh man, let's not even talk about that bunch of heretics - they must be worst than unbelievers, for certainly we would rather have the prophets of Baal in charge than somebody that reads the Old Testament, right? After all, God was not grown up back then and He had some bad temper tantrums...all those death penalties and stuff...no what I mean?

    Gary Demar got my attention about the issue when he described an encounter with a dispensationalist:

    GD: What is your plan for saving the world?
    Dispy: World-wide revival through the preaching of the Gospel.
    GD: What will that look like?

    In other words, what the dispy decribes is in fact the reconstructionist method. If the gospel spread throughout the world and people came to Christ in overwhelming numbers, then the world would in fact be overwhelmed. This would constitute a Christian World. And in a Christian World, the Law of God would have free reign.

    By the way, ALL reformed covenantal systems (premil, amil, postmil, pret) sees the Church as the Kingdom of God.
     
    #6 J.D., Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  7. preacher4truth

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    Lol! I know what you mean bro.

    Denial of Omniscience via Open theism and other avenues could probably see its subjects embrace the theonomist theory.

    Look, no offense to reconstructionism, just sayin if they adjusted and went down this road, adapted &c.

    Lot's could happen for the sake of "peace" and much compromise of theological stances could take place for "the cause. "

    - Peace
     
    #7 preacher4truth, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  8. J.D.

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    No offense taken - I'm not sure I'm a reconstructionist anyway, I just happen to see a lot of truth in what they teach.

    From what I know about them, they would never "adjust" to the type of things you're describing - it would be complete opposite of their system. It's like saying that Calvinistis might become Pelagians some day. I suppose it's possible, but HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
     
  9. glfredrick

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    Thanks...

    Best answer I can give is to look to places in the world where the church is persecuted -- often, to death.

    China, which now has more Christians than America has Americans, finds a church in hiding, much like the description (that many take as "prescription) found in the early chapters of Acts. Meeting in secret, house-to-house, with secret signs as used by the early Christians to identify each other, etc.

    Saharan Africa, where the Muslim population outnumbers all other groups, and death is often the reward for turning one's eyes toward Jesus.

    The "Red" communist nations, where the church was nationalized and only certain government-approved expressions exist (apart from the church in hiding).

    The persecution of Nero and other Roman Emperors against the church, where brother was turned against brother, just for the sake of pleasuring the state.

    If one reads Foxe's Book of Martyrs, one will see the many ways that believers were persecuted down through the ages, and ministries like Voice of the Martyrs tell us that there are more Christian martyrs in this age than ever before in the history of the church.

    It can, and most likely will happen to the church within our own lifetimes.

    The word then is to prepare. We are to edify (build up) the faith of our people so that they can stand in the face of true evil. We are to teach disciples how to trust God, and then give them the tools to teach others.

    If I might interject THE most common argument on this board, in the face of evil and coercion, "choice" will be the worst possible means to express the gospel. We are either Christ's, and as such ready to go home to meet our Maker, or we are not. It is only ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE that will guard us from that evil day -- and the Bible is FULL of both promises and prophecies that indicate that we should be prepared to meet that day with that assurance.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    :thumbsup: I like all those R's!
     
  11. Jon-Marc

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    The desire to eliminate hatred is a good thing if it included the hatred of God and Christianity.
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    I look forward to hearing from you concerning Reconstructionism.

    - Peace
     
  13. preacher4truth

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    You make a great point above, and this is also my belief. All God, and all assurance comes from Him choosing us. :)

    I also believe these things could happen in our liftime, I believe other alleged antichrists were only due to "the spirit of antichrist" already being here, but THE will arise.

    Religions that buy into invisible reign, "all is fulfilled" accept the "delivering up" IMO will be more readily deceived by a world effort for peace and unity, aligning such as "ushering in" God's Kingdom.

    There were also what we call "types" of Christ, and Satan counterfiets this also.

    - Peace
     
    #13 preacher4truth, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  14. Baptist Believer

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    You said, "Where do you make your stand against being forced by societal influences and government to believe some things are good that are clearly evil, and to believe the world’s way, or be counted an enemy of peace, and suffer dire consequences for it?"

    No one can be forced to believe anything.

    You may be able to pressure someone into giving verbal and bodily assent to some idea or position, but you cannot change the heart from the outside.

    That's why I oppose all viewpoint coercion, including efforts to force people give verbal assert to Christ.

    I thoroughly believe in making disciples through persuasion, the power of the Spirit, and training, but I am completely opposed to trying to manipulate people into prayer, religious exercises or "worship."
     
    #14 Baptist Believer, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  15. MB

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    As this becomes more prevalant and it most likely will. We will all be tested. I'm not affraid of death any longer nor the pain of it. I will lean on Jesus if I have to live through such a thing. I trust Him. I hope all of you do as well.
    MB
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    By forced, I mean making a decision between two things; Believe, accept or else.

    Forced to make a decision. To many, that will have already been made.

    Get past that and then we can dialogue. I am not perfect in my presentations of this, just for thought provocation and I believe our world heading that way as I've described.

    - Peace
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    Which cannot happen in "this world" and I agree with you, as this is our desire, as per the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, hungering for righteousness &c.
     
  18. freeatlast

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    I can only hope I would not cave to the pressure of accepting evil as good out of being a coward.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    I can see some value in holding to that attitude.
     
  20. preacher4truth

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    Will Christianity Be Out-lawed?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...nto-ban-christian-prayers-at/?test=latestnews


    This is more effort to oust God and Christianity from the world.

    ...all the while Muslims are construed as peace loving good folks. ANd liberal theology is attempting to eradicate God and replace Him with an anti-biblical love concept.

    It will only continue to grow worst. Christians will not usher in a Kingdom, this is one reason I reject the ideologies of any theological stance, as they see within them Christians eclipsing the world with a theocratic rule.

    Looks like the exact opposite is happening.

    Matthew 24:30 will commence the change, not us, and it didn't already happen in 70 A.D. no matter what Flavius Josephus said.

    :)
     

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