What Would You Do? (Sensitive/Not family-friendly)

matt wade · Feb 13, 2012

abcgrad94 said: ↑

If it doesn't break any BB rules, we can debate this in the "General Discussions" area of the board so as not to go off topic on this thread.
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There's nothing to debate. You said every sexual offender was a repeat offender. The facts don't show that.

gb93433 · Feb 14, 2012

abcgrad94 said: ↑

Are you a pastor or pastor's wife, Matt? Is that why you're posting in the pastor's area of the board? I just wondered.

Smaller churches typically ARE less protected. There are fewer people, so there are fewer men and fewer people to work. It's harder to find enough adults to staff 2 for each Sunday School room, men to watch the parking lot and foyer during services, etc. Many times smaller churches struggle financially, so there's little money for the pastor/lay leaders to get specialized training to counsel addicts. There's little money to install windowed doors on all the classrooms, or cameras in the hallways. There's also the chance in a smaller church, that the pastor is so overwhelmed with other duties, he has little time to make security a priority.
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We know pedophiles are leading churches now. Their crime has not happened and if it has it is not known. A friend of mine had a music leader that both of us had known for several years. He had served under the same pastor something like 20 years Nothing happened until he just seemed to snap. Al the mess in the church was over a period of just a few months and police came to investigate. My friend the pastor was blamed for bring the music leader on. I do not know of one person who ever suspected that he would do anything. There is no such thing as 100% security. Years ago I had a very muscular student in class and was later told that he had murdered someone. I had to check myself after that to make sure I was treating him as I always had. It was very hard to do that.

Batt4Christ · Apr 22, 2012

Mark_13 said: ↑

I think the biggest mistake you made was getting all the deacons together to tell them about it. You're the pastor, the ostensible spiritual leader of the church, the deacons are largely lay leaders.
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Haven't been back here in a while - but felt the need to revisit this - and there are a few new pages since I last checked.

The portion I quoted above caused me to go back to the OP and sure enough, I left out an important step in the events... I spoke with the man in question and he asked to speak to the deacons - this is what initiated me calling the deacons together so that I could allow them some "heads-up".

That being said, maybe I just should have honored the man's request, calling them together and allowing him to open that can in that context.

What i do know is that he has semi returned to his previous church (where his brother still pastors). When I say "semi", I mean that they have been back inconsistently. Apparently, he has told some there a far different story than what was told to me and our deacons, and showed a lack of remorse towards his crime in that setting as well, so its not surprising that he and his family haven't been consistent there.

A question that absolutely must be asked - A "born-again" Christian man, who offends, particularly in what he did - then years later, when the crime comes to light to people that trusted him and showed him nothing but love and friendship, he fails to portray andy remorse for the actual crime - only regrets about the price HE paid for the crime... does that not leave grounds for concern?

I still find myself from time-to-time remembering some of my less-savory exploits that came many years before I trusted Christ - and I still feel remorse for how I hurt others (thought these were not crimes - just poor treatment of some people in my life) and have actually spoken to many that I could contact to specifically ask for forgiveness.

Could this have all been handled better - maybe so. But I have never before been in a position anything like it. I prayed a great deal over this and chose the closest thing I could to biblical principals (at least as I could see at the time). Go to the brother who has offended you (his offense to me? failure to disclose so that it could be addressed in the proper context - a way that might not have even resulted in a breaking of fellowship... but that is all speculation when after the fact). The brother gets defensive and wanted to speak to the deacons (this man was the son of a preacher/missionary and holds a high view of deacons). I "pre-meet" (is that a real word?) in an effort to keep them from being blindsided - possibly one of my biggest mistakes, then allow him to speak his mind. His answers caused more concern that any of us had prior to this meeting. Subsequent conversation with this brother resulted in some pretty wild answers and redirection of blame back towards his ex wife and the victim.

At that point, what other choice was there?

freeatlast · May 22, 2012

Batt4Christ said: ↑

I have hesitated to post this here. I have been praying and even fasting, looking for the "answers" in how to handle this - and in the meantime, the situation has grown worse. I will spare the nitty-gritty details and just lay the framework out here:

A family joins a local church. The family has plugged in and is active. The wife, who is several years younger than the husband, and still pretty immature spiritually has been growing. They have three small children (all boys).

We (the church) has known all along that the husband spent time in prison (was released about 6 years ago). This man has shared many of his prison experiences as parts of his testimony. His background was in law enforcement, as well as had pastored prior to his conviction.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago when a phone call to the pastor of this church - the call being from this man's daughter (adult) who was the victim of his crime - he had molested her over the course of 2 years, culminating in his rape conviction and sentencing 20 years ago. She has obvious issues with pain (though she is engaged in ministry in another state). She said that her reason for calling this pastor was to let him and his congregation know the danger posed.

This pastor calls his deacons together to discuss the issue. They want to refer it back to the previous church who granted the letter for this family. It just so happens that the pastor of that previous church is the brother of this man in question. That pastor's view is that what this man did in the past, he paid for by serving his time, getting counseling and participating in a program specifically for his crime. In the 6 years the man in question has been out of prison, he has been a contributing member of society, has kept his nose clean, and has given absolutely zero reason for concern. He has not been around children at the church, other than his own. He has intentionally kept himself out of any questionable circumstances.

This man then visits with the deacons and admits his crime (thought he still holds his ex-wife at least partially to blame...), explains that he has repented, that he has sought and received the forgiveness of the church he was a member of at the time of the crime (and who granted him a letter to his recent former church). That he has been doing all he can to start over, to provide a stable and Godly foundation for his wife and children.

The decons' response - they essentially want this man's former pastor and brother to talk him into quietly leave the current church (which of course his brother found offensive).

His current pastor is torn between fulfilling his unquestionable responsibility to minister to this family, and the now heavy burden of this man's past crime and the certain fallout as word spreads through the congregation.

This church is a small church, and pretty fragile, but seeing positive signs. The deacons are worried that the presence of a pedophile/sex offender will scare off young couples visiting and looking for a church. The pastor is concerned that failure to minister to this couple, along with quite unscriptural attempts to "put off" this man and his family, though he has done no crime in or to the church (outside the possible "crime" of failure to disclose his past crime) will bring condemnation from God.

The church has policies in place from prior to the current pastor's beginning service, that include background checks for children's workers/volunteers, as well as policies that preclude an adult from being completely alone with any child other than their own - but the policies have not been fully implemented (and this being an object lesson in why they SHOULD be in place!).

My own leaning is that this man should speak to the assembled church (minus children), admitting his crime, but also explaining his rational for not being open with this from the beginning, and what He has done to get beyond this (counseling/etc.).

There are legitimate concerns that this could destroy this small congregation. The question begs - what would Jesus do?
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There are several issues here. One is your claim that he still blames his wife in part. That is too vague. What does that mean? If he is blaming her for his sin in this area then there is a problem, but if not then while he still may have an issue with accepting full responsibility for something it is not the same as not accepting full responsibility for this sin.

Next why should he have to disclose his past sins? If that is expected then every member needs to disclose their past. All murderers, fornicators, adulterers, did you keep your wife pure before marriage, thieves and on and on. Keep in mind that someone who has done adultery in the past could do it in the fuyure and steal the preachers wife or the preacher. By the way make sure they give all the past details.

You mentioned that he is actually doing things to keep any suspicion off him. That is good as it shows that he understands the concern and does not want to cause any unnecessary unrest. I noticed you called him a pedophile/sex offender . Are you suggesting he is till engaged in this sin? If not then do you and the deacons refer to all your members by their past sins? Why not? What label do you and the deacons place on yourselves?

All that to say this. I think the church, including the Pastor and deacons, are probably way too immature for past repentant sinners, for this man to remain. In other words unless this church is newly formed in the last 10 years or so that church is in a sad state. Keep in mind that incest is not new and churches have had these people “such were some of you” in them from the beginning not to mention those who continue to judge them because of their past. Instead of harming his faith because of the churches immaturity and telling him to leave I would suggest that the deacons and pastor get together in private with no one knowing, not even their wives, and ask the Lord to sway this man to attend another larger more mature church, where he can keep his past quiet like most of the rest of the people do who attend or to grow this immature people of this church into a mature one so they can receive people who have sinned in the past.

agedman · May 22, 2012

Batt4Christ said: ↑

Haven't been back here in a while - but felt the need to revisit this - and there are a few new pages since I last checked.

The portion I quoted above caused me to go back to the OP and sure enough, I left out an important step in the events... I spoke with the man in question and he asked to speak to the deacons - this is what initiated me calling the deacons together so that I could allow them some "heads-up".

That being said, maybe I just should have honored the man's request, calling them together and allowing him to open that can in that context.

What i do know is that he has semi returned to his previous church (where his brother still pastors). When I say "semi", I mean that they have been back inconsistently. Apparently, he has told some there a far different story than what was told to me and our deacons, and showed a lack of remorse towards his crime in that setting as well, so its not surprising that he and his family haven't been consistent there.

A question that absolutely must be asked - A "born-again" Christian man, who offends, particularly in what he did - then years later, when the crime comes to light to people that trusted him and showed him nothing but love and friendship, he fails to portray andy remorse for the actual crime - only regrets about the price HE paid for the crime... does that not leave grounds for concern?

I still find myself from time-to-time remembering some of my less-savory exploits that came many years before I trusted Christ - and I still feel remorse for how I hurt others (thought these were not crimes - just poor treatment of some people in my life) and have actually spoken to many that I could contact to specifically ask for forgiveness.

Could this have all been handled better - maybe so. But I have never before been in a position anything like it. I prayed a great deal over this and chose the closest thing I could to biblical principals (at least as I could see at the time). Go to the brother who has offended you (his offense to me? failure to disclose so that it could be addressed in the proper context - a way that might not have even resulted in a breaking of fellowship... but that is all speculation when after the fact). The brother gets defensive and wanted to speak to the deacons (this man was the son of a preacher/missionary and holds a high view of deacons). I "pre-meet" (is that a real word?) in an effort to keep them from being blindsided - possibly one of my biggest mistakes, then allow him to speak his mind. His answers caused more concern that any of us had prior to this meeting. Subsequent conversation with this brother resulted in some pretty wild answers and redirection of blame back towards his ex wife and the victim.

At that point, what other choice was there?
Click to expand...

From what you have stated in the OP and this post (and I have read all the others) you probably handled it in the best way possible.

Character flaws are not resolved by geographical changes. Some consider that "prison" will change a person's character - rarely.

Personally my desire to protect the innocence of naturally trusting children would oblige (had the person stayed in the assembly) for an explanatory letter (including some redacted documentations) and followup question answer session with the congregation to be scheduled. Depending on the general goals and attitudinal reaction to the letter by the assembly, it may not have been inappropriate to invite the victims in hope of at least a groundwork for reconciliation/forgiveness and conditional healing could take place.

Doubtful any of that would work, though.

The chances are the person would bolt and run if they knew in their core that being "exposed" would show them a fraud. However, if truly humble and repentant, they would face any critical examination and desire all to be edified to God's glory. The person's character would display their own heart.

Alive in Christ · Jun 13, 2012

......

Ooops.

Sorry. I didnt know I was on the forum for pastors.

I deleted my response.

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