What you are is what you is

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ron Arndt, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. Ron Arndt

    Ron Arndt
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    Marcia

    What you don't understand is that your salvation is complete in Christ, but you and I have much to learn both spiritually and intellectually, concerning what lies in this life and our vast universe. Do you think that when you die a switch will go on in you and presto chango you will know everything instantaneously?

    No, Marcia you are what you are and what you understand both intellectually and spiritually the day you die will not change when your soul departs the body. Your body is merely a house or dwelling for your soul, but the soul doesn't suddenly graduate to godlike intellect when one leaves the body. What you are at the time of death will be what you will be as you cross over.

    Now for other life forms on other worlds. If you want to believe you are the only life form in this whole vast universe then believe what you will. Yes, everything created was created for God's glory, but that doesn't mean man is God's only creation of life. Look around you and under a microscope. The reason man hasn't been able to establish the proof of life on other worlds in millions of other solar systems, is because we haven't been able to reach these planets. But that does NOT mean life on other worlds does not exist at all.

    A leading scientist(Carl Sagan) once said that in our galaxy alone(just one galaxy), there is a mathematical probability of at LEAST 50 MILLION earth like planets that could contain life. This was a quote from a leading scientist!

    Long ago, men were told the earth was flat. Long ago men were told they could never fly. Long ago men were told man could not go to the moon. But despite the rantings of narrow minded people, man DID achieve what they were told they couldn't do. Now people are told by others like yourself, there is no life on any other planet but ours and so man should dismiss the idea of space travel altogether.

    But someday that to will be debunked and man WILL travel to the stars.If not 10,000 years from now, man will when our Lord returns and we enter the eternal state. Shalom.

    [ February 23, 2006, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
     
  2. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    Shouldn't this have been a private message?
     
  3. Uncle AlaGator

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    I find nothing in scripture that refers to our after-life's agenda of education. It's all interesting supposition, Ron, but that falls under the category of things we won't know until God chooses to show us.

    Knowledge doesn't get us into Heaven (and I know you probably realize that) nor does any scripture cite an education process once we get there.
     
  4. Marcia

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    Ron, I almost didn't look at this thread. You should have called attention to it with another title or something.

    Joshua, this is a continuation of a dialogue Ron and I were having on a thread that was moved to Other Christian Denominations because it was started by a non-Baptist (not Ron).

    Ron, you are making assertions with absolutely no scriptural back-up. The view that we have to keep learning after we die is not biblical. Also, your certainty that there is life on other planets is not based on the bible, either.

    Never mind life on other planets - please give scripture about learning more after death and about who our teachers will be. On the other thread, you said we would be taught by others after death. I asked who these beings were and you did not answer.
     
  5. Humblesmith

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    A bit of an odd place to start a thread.....

    First, at no point will we ever have "Godlike intellect." He is infinite, we are finite. Also, in heaven, we will certainly not know any less than we do now. As to how much we will know, or who exactly teaches us, I haven't found an answer to this in scripture.

    Second, regarding the allusion to the body. I hope we're not denying bodily ressurrection....the body is not merely something to hold the soul. The body is crucial, and denial of bodily ressurrection is a first class heresy.

    Third, Carl Sagan was wrong. He was an ardent atheist, and was inconsistent with his teachings. I'm not sure if he was aware of the anthropic principle, but at last count, I think Hugh Ross has 154 things on the anthropic list, which makes the liklihood of life on other planets EXTREMELY remote. Not impossible, but astonomically remote. See www.reasonstobelieve.org (the anthropic principle requires many finely-tuned things to support life...angle of the tilt of the earth, distance to the sun, size of the sun, size of the moon, size of jupiter, etc, etc, etc. Sagan didn't consider this.)
     
  6. Helen

    Helen
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    Learning after death? That's easy. In John 17:3, Jesus defines eternal life as knowing the Father and the Son. Now, if you think we will know everything before we die....

    We also read in 1 Cor. 13 that "then I will know even as I am known" -- and that involves learning.

    I am sure God wastes nothing in His economy, and that although we are, in a sense, started here in terms of becoming what we were created to be, that the process is not finished at death, for He will finish the good work He has started in each of us.

    We will be learning. Heaven will not be static!

    Which also leads me to the thought that Jesus said that heaven starts inside of a person now, at salvation. And I have certainly been learning a lot since He took my life over 30+ years ago.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    This is a very odd subject. Astronomy is one of my hobbies, and all I can think of when I look at the planets and stars with a scope is how magnificant God's creation is.

    Sagan was an athiest, and would not put any stock in anything he said. That being said, I find nothing in the Scripture that says there cannot be life out there, life God created.

    What is that to us, really. We are here to be used of God to bring others to Christ.
     
  8. Uncle AlaGator

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    I have to show my ignorance a little bit :( Bodily resurrection? I didn't think our bodies had any place in Heaven, strictly our souls??
     
  9. Uncle AlaGator

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    I have to show my ignorance a little bit :( Bodily resurrection? I didn't think our bodies had any place in Heaven, strictly our souls??
     
  10. Marcia

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    I was going to leave this thread alone but I couldn't not respond to this (and I might say more to other statements).

    Have you not read 1 Cor. 15? Jesus' resurrection was the firstfruits (verse 20) -- we will have a bodily resurrection as Jesus did. His body was changed but it was still his body because Thomas could see the scars.

    I have to say I'm taken aback by seeing 2 Baptists who don't know about our bodily resurrection.
     
  11. Marcia

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    Helen, I agree that we will certainly be totally redeemed after death. But all that the Bible indicates is that we will be praising God and enjoying His presence and have no tears. Of course, we will know Christ and God more intimately than now, but this is not learning in the sense of evolving to an omniscient state, as implied by Ron's post.

    First of all, we will never "graduate to a godlike intellect." Secondly, we will be redeemed totally in heaven, Ron, including bodily. There are 3 stages of redemption: We are justified when we trust Christ; we are sanctified as we live on earth by the Holy Spirit; we will be totally redeemed after death. Our body is not merely a dwelling for our souls. The New Agers say that we are spirits in a body but God says that He created our bodies and that they will be resurrected. You need to read 1 Cor. 15.

    We will never know everything, Ron. We will never be omniscient; only God is omniscient. Where did you get these ideas?
     
  12. DeeJay

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    Progressive learning in Heaven and life on other planets. Wow sounds familare, because this is Mormonisem 101.

    Progressive shows time. One day added to another day. One lesson added to the next lesson. Smarter tomarow then today. This makes time, problem is Heaven is eternal not time, no one day added to the next. Why would you not think that when we arrive in Heaven we are given all the knowlege that God wants us to have.

    As to life on other planets. Do you believe that Christ died on each of these planets to save them. Or do they read about our planet in there Bible, or do these other people not need saving.
     
  13. Humblesmith

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    DeeJay makes good points.

    As for bodily ressurrection: the popular teaching of most today is that we'll be some sort of spirit beings....like Casper The Friendly Ghost. But as Marcia pointed out, scripture teaches that our bodies will be ressurrected. This is what the church taught for all of history, up until the last 30 years or so. If you carefully walk through 1 Cor. 15, you'll see that Paul is repeatedly, over and over again, supporting the ressurrection of our physical bodies. Glorified, yes, but physical. Further, the bible says that "we will be like Him" and He walked, touched, spoke, and ate fish after the ressurrection.
     

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