Whats the big deal here anyway?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Apparently, this is all you need to be saved, according to Baptist belief.

    "Dear Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner, and I deserve to pay my own sin debt, but I do believe that You died for me to pay the debt that I owe. Today, the best I know how, I trust You as my Saviour. I will depend on You from this moment on for my salvation. Amen."

    1 Recognize that you are a sinner
    2 Admit that you deserve punishment for your sins
    3 Recognize that Jesus died for our sins
    4 Trust that Jesus will keep His promise

    So then I may assume that everything else is nonessential to salvation?

    Then why are you guys always so worked up about everything else?

    This "sinners prayer" doesn't say anything about interpretting Scripture, or not praying to Saints, or statues, or sexual orientation, or soul sleep, or the Book of Mormon, or the Real Presence in Eucharist.

    It doesn't even say anything about being sorry for your sins or resolving to try to not sin in the future.

    If that's all there is, why not accept it when someone does it and let the rest go?

    Or is this a case of false advertising?
     
  2. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, isn't that ironic. The only prayer you need to say isn't even in the Bible! [​IMG]
     
  3. john6:63

    john6:63
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 10:9-10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Could a prayer be a confession by mouth?
     
  4. Lorelei

    Lorelei
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible says that all that is essential is this:

    The things you mentioned are not essential for salvation because with most of them you can not even find salvation. If you are trusting in anything else or anyone else, you are wrong and therefore not saved. We need to correct the error to reveal the truth.

    The Bible reveals who Jesus is. Believing in a nameless man named "Jesus" does not lead to salvation. You need to know Jesus, as revealed in the Word of God in order to "believe" in Him and be saved. The Bible speaks of people believing in another "Jesus" and another "gospel." So we know it is possible to believe in a "wrong" one. When we correct these false doctrines we are pointing out that they are the "wrong" gospel and it IS important to salvation to do so.

    ~Lorelei
     
  5. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    None of the above are in the Baptist prayer linked on this very site.

    The promise is if that if you follow the four steps, then you can be assured that the moment that you die you will be in heaven.

    If it isn't true, why is it on this site?
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    1. ADMIT that you ARE lost. You are lost if you have NOT trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior (John 3:18). God's word tells us that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

    2. TURN To God (With your heart; with faith, and sorrow for your sins and unbelief). BELIEVE that Jesus Christ died on the cross as a sacrifice for us! You must believe that Jesus died for YOUR sins, and died as YOUR substitute. Jesus is the only one that can erase sin from your life.

    3. TRUST In Jesus Christ (With your heart; Trusting Him with your eternal soul; Wanting and willing to receive Him as your own personal Savior.) Ask GOD for the FREE GIFT of Eternal Life! Ask him in prayer, in your own words, from your heart to forgive you and to save you. Express your sorrow for sins, and your desire for him to forgive you and save your soul. This must be a genuine and sincere prayer, not just the act of repeating some words provided for you. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK! Salvation is FREE!"
    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved," (Acts 16:30,31).
     
  7. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rom 10:9-10 is not the be-all and end-all of what salvation is about. It doesn't even mention repentance or grace at all, and only implies faith.
     
  8. john6:63

    john6:63
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0

    But the Bible is quite clear on all these issues.

    Italics mine.

    "...I deserve to pay my own sin debt..." sounds remorseful to me.

    "...I will depend on you from this moment on for my salvation"

    Growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and communion with Him in daily prayer will help us combat sin in the future. But, we will fail from time to time and sin, and knowing Christ as our savior we can repent for our sins and be forgiven.
     
  9. Justified Saint

    Justified Saint
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    0
    But where in the Bible did Jesus teach us and recite the sinner's prayer word for word?
     
  10. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    (BrianT0

    It doesn't even mention repentance or grace at all, and only implies faith.

    (Singer)

    Faith activates God to shed grace. How else are we to activate it............
    through works?
     
  11. john6:63

    john6:63
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 10:9-11 was my response to Justified Saints response about prayer. The sinner’s prayer or any confession prayer is a “confession by mouth.”
     
  12. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    But they are not salvation issues are they?

    If not, then why the big deal. You're going to heaven for sure, right?

    And if they are salvation issues, then a whole lot of people have been mislead.


    I also deserve to pay my own phone bill. I'm not remorseful about that. I think that you may be reading into the words.

    Besides, if remorse is a condition of salvation, why doesn't this "sinners prayer" come out and say it? Why the big secret?

    No, the link specificly says that no amount of praying will get you into heaven.

    Besides, the Baptist "sinner prayer" doesn't even address avoiding future sin.

    You're saved so it must be a none issue.
    But I thought that all your sins past, present and future are forgiven the moment you are saved.

    What's the point in repenting if even future sins are forgiven before we even commit them?

    And again, you are saved so it's a nonissue.

    Aren't you sure that the moment that you die, you will be in heaven?
     
  13. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    The implication is there running as a golden thread throughout Scripture; it is the essence of the Gospel. If you want to get specific, well there are specifics such as Peter's 1st sermon in Acts 2. It is not enough however to pay attention to the mere words of the 'sinner's prayer'; for example, there are many Hispanic guys called Jesus but I would be wary about trusting them unless I knew them! What I am saying is it is meaningless to sat "I trust in Jesus", unless we know who and why Jesus is. That is why Scripture, and to a degree how it is interpreted, is important.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  14. john6:63

    john6:63
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe you are missing the whole point of repentance. There is no model repentance prayer that is the one and only. The Bible is clear what one must do to repent. Our relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal relationship, and since the Bible is clear on what one must do to repent, we may go to the Lord in prayer and confess by mouth in our own prayer. The “sinner’s prayer” is only a model prayer and many are worded differently, but still accomplish the same purpose.
     
  15. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23


    "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23


    "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8


    "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9-10, 13
     
  16. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    What everyone seems to be missing is that this link (on this very board)that claims to have the way to have assurance that the moment you die you will instantly be in Heaven, says nothing about repentance.

    Nada
    Zip
    Zero
    Nothing

    Not a single word about repentance.
     
  17. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I believe that a sinner is saved wholly by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and the requirements for regeneration are repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3-5; John 3:16-18; Acts 20:21; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8, 9), and that the Holy Spirit convicts sinners, regenerates, seals, secures, and indwells every believer (John 3:6; John 16:8, 9; Rom. 8:9-11; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5).

    I believe that all who trust Jesus Christ for salvation are eternally secure in Him and shall not perish (John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; Rom. 8:35-39; Heb. 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5).

    I believe that God deals with His children, that He chastises the disobedient, and rewards the obedient (Matt. 16:27; Matt. 25:14-23; John 1:12; Heb. 12:5-11; 2 John 8; Rev. 22:12).
     
  18. john6:63

    john6:63
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm saved by the blood of the Lamb, I don’t pray to saints, Mary or a statues. My relationship with Christ is personal. What you do personally is between you and God, not me. It’s not my duty to Judge others. Again I feel the Bible speaks for itself on these issues.

    If you are truly saved, why should you need to pray to a saints, Mary or statues? Where in the Bible does it say I have too? If you are truly saved, and the Bible speaks clearly on sexual orientation, then one should leave that life style.

    You're building a strawman here.

    The greek word behind repentance and repent are "metanoein and metamelesqai." "Repent" or "metanoein" means " a change of heart generally or in respect of sin, where as "metamelesqai" means to experience remorse.

    There is no secret, the Bible says men are without excuse.

    IMO, I’m not going to be hypocritical. I’m saved, I’ve accepted Christ and I’m doing my best, even if it’s not good enough sometimes to walk righteously. Just because I’m saved doesn’t mean I can sin whenever it pleases me. But I will fail and I will feel remorseful for doing so. The Holy Sprit is convicting my heart, so I ask God in Jesus’ Name for forgiveness, even if it’s already forgiven.

    Absolutely sure, not because of anything I’ve done, I’ve sinned. I’m going to heaven because of my faith in what Christ done for me on the cross and the fact that God raised Him from the dead.
     
  19. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    We don't activate it at all. God gives it as he chooses. My point was simply that Rom 10:9-10 does not stand alone as the explanation of salvation. In fact, it only speaks of works: confessing, believing, etc. ;)
     
  20. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    (BrianT)

    "We don't activate it at all. God gives it as he chooses. My point was
    simply that Rom 10:9-10 does not stand alone as the explanation of
    salvation. In fact, it only speaks of works: confessing, believing, etc."

    (Singer)

    Very well, Brian. If we can't activate grace, then why all the hub-bub that
    goes on in the Catholic Church ....re: praying to saints, daily trips to the
    church, confessing to preiests, counting rosary beads, repeating "Hail Mary"
    40 times etc.

    Did you see the scripture that was offered:

    Romans 10:9-10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and
    believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be
    saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the
    mouth confession is made unto salvation.


    If believing and confessing are works, then we are saved by works and
    the bible clearly says we are not saved by works.

    The above scripture didn't say anything about reciting prayers or counting
    beads.
     

Share This Page

Loading...