What's the worse case scenario if we don't raise the debt limit?

Yes they can. 4-2= 4, despite how much you might object otherwise. Math does not lie.

 

Your numbers cannot work as they woyuld destroy the economy. There is no way to fix the debt.

 

So you admit that they would work, you just don't like the results. You have also admitted that the economy is going to be destroyed anyway. Might as well try then, instead of just giving up.

Conjecturing on possible results does not prove that the plan itself won't work. Glad you finally admitted it is possible. I disagree with your conjecture concerning the results of fixing the problem. I believe it would save the economy.

 

No it will not work. Just because something can be done does not mean it will will work. It is impossible to fix the debt or even the deficit as we are too far into debt having to borrow 41% just to keep afloat right now.

 

We don't have to borrow 41 percent, as I have clearly shown. We are not borrowing 41 percent to "stay afloat." We are borrowing so much to pay for bloated welfare programs, and wars we cannot afford. Bringing the boys home (not discharging them, and leaving them unemployed), would cut the defense budget by half. That would in no way wreck the economy. Neither would making rich retired folks buy their own insurance, or stop sending them SS checks. Nor would making dads that make 40k per year, contribute a small portion to their kids Medicaid.

All of those things can be done, none of them would affect the economy, and as I have shown, extensively, these small measures (along with tariff increases, which would boost domestic sales, helping the economy, and closing corporate tax loopholes) would be enough to balance the budget.

Apparently you have a political agenda against a balanced budget. The only conclusion I can make, here, is that you believe in socialism, and are unwilling to shrink government. Because the numbers work, as any thinking individual can see (and as you yoursself admitted)

 

We are too far into debt to fix the problem. We will default at some point.

 

By choice, not necessity. Idiots and cowards who are unwilling to make the tough choices, are going to cause the default...not necessity. We can, as the math clearly shows, avoid it.

 

No, we will start WW3.

Or more likely the market will solve the problem by cutting the buying power of the dollar by a half or a third.

 

No matter how one cuts it the debt is not going to be fixed and that is because it is impossible whether one holds it is of political wrangling or financial impossibility. The end result will be the same. We will default and become like a third world country.

 

No its NOT impossible. And no amount of you sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "Uh-uh," will change that. It IS possible. It CAN be done. Math does not lie.

 

Nope it is impossible. No amount of cutting can make the debt be corrected as cutting to the point of a balance will destroy the economy. So it is impossible.

 

You have failed to demonstrate this, at ALL. Please show how this is true. I have shown real numbers, and real data, that shows what you are saying is not true. You are just being childish, now, playing a last word game, because you don't want to admit that you are wrong, and you are unable to refute the clear proof that has been provided. Go ahead. Keep being childish. But until you provide real data, I think everyone who is following this thread, can see what is going on. You are wrong. It is possible.

 

Nope it is not possible and that will be proven in the coming months when we default and fall as a nation..

 

(HavensDad provides an outline of how to fix the problem.)

Just where are you getting these fictional numbers? Here are the real numbers from July 20th to July 21st:

Date Total U.S. Debt
07/20/2011 14,342,887,364,361.82
07/21/2011 14,342,884,944,996.28

Oops. The debt went down that day. Let's back up a day.

Date Total U.S. Debt
07/18/2011 14,342,909,569,328.74
07/19/2011 14,342,898,467,069.07

Dang! Went down again, both days. How about going back a bit to when the stimulus bill was recently passed, say in October 2009:

10/15/2009 11,946,703,132,807.34
10/16/2009 11,948,722,543,849.95

There. It went up $2.019 billion in one day but that's hardly FIVE BILLION A DAY, EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR.

BTW, you can plug in any date range at the link below and get the numbers. For example June 30, 2010 to June 30, 2011 returns a value of

$139 Billion added in the past year. Hmmm...that's a far cry from $2 Trillion added per year.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

So you are proceeding from a false premise. You keep saying to use real numbers, i.e. "put up real numbers and show how to stop adding to the debt". You said (post #34):

Then less than an hour later you said (post #41):

I think you should take your own advice about putting up real numbers, cause yours are fake.

 

The debt has never went down from one day to the next. That is why his math is flawed. The debt is impossible to fix and we will default at some point and lose just about everything we have.

 

How about a little common sense with a few numbers thrown in?

There is no budget focus on the illegal wars and military occupations that the US government has underway in at least six countries or the 66-year old US occupations of Japan and Germany and the ring of military bases being constructed around Russia.

The total military/security budget is in the vicinity of $1.1-$1.2 trillion, or 70% -75% of the federal budget deficit.


"The way to get the budget under control is to stop the gratuitous hegemonic wars, wars that will end in a nuclear confrontation."

 

I just posted two examples of two days where the debt DID go down. It simply means that more government securities were redeemed and paid down that day than were issued and sold. It happens. (In fact, U.S. Treasury securities are sold on Tuesdays and issued on Thursdays.)

I see that you've already made up your mind and that facts are things you choose to ignore.

 

You mean like the time you ignored all the facts that prove fractional reserve banking and the Federal Reserve system are giant ponzi schemes?

Look, crunch all the numbers you want anyway you want. Twist em bend em turn em inside out, shake em all up and pour em out and claim them to be "the" numbers all you want if that's what it takes to make you feel smart. But it will do nothing to the solve the problem of having a den of thieves and liars in charge of our country and economy.

Attack the root! Otherwise you're just shakin the leaves, and wasting a whole lot of wind doing it!

 

This I agree with. As long as socialist goofballs make up half of the government, and spineless windbags make up the other, nothing will ever change. However, the fact remains that it COULD be fixed, according to the numbers. It is certainly not impossible.

 

You posted numbers but the numbers are bogus. What you have is parlor tricks that the US government uses to make the balance sheets look good, but they are actually false. The debt has never went down from the time of Regan until now. It is impossible to fix the debt and we will default in the near future.