What's Wrong with Calvinism?

Well the most simple answer is they are not Biblical :thumbsup: And that's good enough for me.

 

Well, then, you would certainly view me as one, for I cannot find biblical support for what Calvinism espouses. Been there, looked at that, prayerfully read scriptures. Determined the doctrine didn't fit biblically.

Good luck on your ongoing quest to ... well, I'm not certain just exactly what you are trying to do. But at least you appear consistely active at it!

 

Dear NHTF , your "been there done that" is a woefully insufficient criteria to have determined that Calvinism is not biblical . And a general dismissive " It's not biblical " just does not cut the proverbial mustard .

I just used that mustard cliche in my last paragraph. Nevertheless , I am tired of hearing such worn-out expressions as "been there done that " . because most folks discussing practically anything will use that as a legitimate form of argumentation . But it just does not hold any water .:laugh:

I wish people would state specifics when it comes to their attempts to debunk what they think Calvinism is .

 

That was purposeful I have learned that there aren't very many folks around that when this subject pops up that are really looking for answers. There may be a watcher that is struggling with the issue, but those participating are ones that have their minds made up and are not going to be persuaded one way or the other, which means it's basically meaningless to talkk about

However I will offer this as some reading material:

http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Erjvelema/rve_e/predelcn.pdf

 

One of my closest friends once said:

"There are only two things wrong with Calvinism. It blasphemes God and it de-humanizes man. Outside of that, it's a great system!"

BTW, he and I both arrived at about the same time (and completely independantly of the other) to the POV that in the final analysis, there is no difference between the system often known as "Arminianism" and the system often known as 'Calvinism". Both are finally determined by 'works' and both deny the Biblical ideas of 'grace'.

In short, neither has any real place (They only 'tolerate' him, when they can barely even stomach him!) for the only man in Scripture identified three times as righteous or just, and the only one specifically identified as "Godly" - my Biblical 'hero' , Lot!

Ed

 

succintly put, Ed.

I have some very specific arguments with Calvinism, only a few of which are here (and yes I wrote every word of all three of them)

http://www.setterfield.org/calvinism.htm
http://www.setterfield.org/elect.htm
http://www.setterfield.org/Esau.html

 

Please read my articles which I linked and see if that is some of what is specific enough.

 

Read what immediately followed what you quoted. And I had no intention of 'fixing' any error, but did point out a couple of 'errors', including how both the so-called 'systems' are really systems of works, and how they view Lot.
As to hurling those ovaloids, neuropathy and arthritis are not conducive to such, so I seldom attempt it in the first place.

Ed

 

I apologize for posting -- this is not debatable in my viewpoint and I should have stayed away from the subject. For me, John 3:16 is valid. "...whosoever believeth..." and requires no legalistic parsing. As Christ answered those who used legalism as a weapon, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God." I have been saved through God's grace and I do not doubt His ability to do so.

If I must defend my position, I would use Saul. Why, if he were predestined, elected, chosen, whatever word a Calvinist would use -- why was his conversion experience necessary? And, that question is rhetorical -- no need to respond.

Thank you for your patience.

 

1. Limited atonement as limited grace where "God so loves the FEW" of Matt 7 and arbitrarily selects THEM to be saved.

2. double predestination in irresistable grace - which gets back to point 1 above.

But they do have a point on total depravity and perseverance of the saints.

In the pure Arminian view (the one that rejects the Calvinist teaching on OSAS) you can "KNOW" that you are saved today but can not now that you will continue to choose eternal life 10 years from today.

In honest 3&5 point Calvinism - you can not even know that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Good points.

The problem with Calvinism - is that it goes against the Bible.

In Christ,

Bob

 

1. The truth is in Rom 3 - ALL are born in sin, depraved with sinful natures that -- "by nature" are children of wrath.

But God DRAWS ALL mankind and convicts "the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment". God was "IN CHRIST" reconciling "THE WORLD" to Himself".

2. Grace is unconditional - in that God unconditionally draws, and reconciles and convicts as Romans 2 says "It is the GOODNESS of God that LEADS you to repentance". But Grace does not FORCE the will as some types of Calvinism suppose.

3. Limited atonement when taken to be Calvinism's limited grace, limited Love - (limited God) is wrong. It supposed extreme partiality and arbitrary selection as the "methods of God". The truth is "God so LOVED the WORLD" and as Peter said "God is not WILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance". There is NO arbitrary selection process with God for as Paul says "God is NOT Partial" Romans 2.

YET - limited Atonement IS correct IF the CORRECT VIEW of Atonement had been used instead of the false pagan notion of "appeasement of the angry god" - the Bible view is "God so LOVED THE WORLD that HE GAVE".

4. Grace is resistable - in that men harden their hearts against it as is clearly seen in scripture. IN Heb 3 and 4 we see the command TO US "do NOT harden your heart".

5. Perseverance of the saints is correct - but should not be taken to the point of removing free will. Adam FREELY chose sin.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Why do I need to have my beliefs vindicated?

And I'm not dismayed at all about other misrepresenting what I believe, and giving my views is not going to cure that problem anyway. You proved that in the other thread. I laid out my beliefs which are not in line with Calvins teachings and yet you still put me in that camp

So it doesn't really matter. Most people are going to hear what they want, read what they want and see what they want. That's just the way it is.