What's your take on this ?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    There is another post by a member asking about spiritual and physical death.

    Which made me think also. If man, as a whole personality, is body, soul, and spirit, and the soul has everlasting life (that is, it lives forever, whether it goes to heaven or hell), then which spirit is dead before regeneration, when the Bible also says in Ecclessiastes 12:7 -

    Is this spirit the soul, or is it the breath of life ? Is the Preacher referring to all men, or some men only, or many men ?
     
  2. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
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    Man, in the image of God, is body (flesh), soul (that which quickens the flesh) and spirit (the image of God who is spirit). Every mammal has flesh and soul. Man has spirit which makes man a higher order creation than the animals, and that is what God spoke to when he said man shall have dominion over the rest of His creation.

    It is with flesh and soul that animals can be trained to respond to the commands of man. The animals however, outside of their own species, cannot command other species in any fashion other than by attack and fear. Man alone has the ability to command all the species. That doesn't mean that man 'controls' all other species but man does have dominion (authority) for and over the rest. Man thinks of ways to "manage" the rest, while none of the other species can think of ways to manage man.

    All mankind being equally made in the image of God have flesh, soul, and spirit. Without spirit man is no higher creature than the animals. And we are told in Genesis that man is made "higher" than the rest.

    The spirit, being the "life" of the flesh, is the seat of persuasion and 'authority' in man. Persuasion is what makes man do what man does, and authority is what controls the actions of the flesh, making man 'civil', giving man control of his own being. The spirit in man is what "was lost in the garden" and is what Jesus came to seek and to save.

    The spirit of man is not "dead" meaning, has no life, in an unsaved person. It is destined for death, the 2nd death, the lake of fire, because it hath not faith. It is FAITH that makes the spirit of man alive, for it is by belief that we receive everlasting life. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Thus it is faith by which man is "regenerated".

    It is Faith in God, in the man, that God counts as righteousness unto life eternal. If we have the faith in God that Abraham had, we are counted as being righteous, just like Abraham!

    Regeneration is like sitting in a rocking chair on the porch, when the aroma of a freshly baked spice apple pie invades your presence. The aroma causes the "sleeping" part or your being to awaken to the prospect of eating the pie. If you get up and leave the area, the aroma does not follow you lest the wind be blowing in that direction. But if you get up and go to where the pie is, you may very well be enjoying that succulently delicious pie.

    If you sense that something good is contained in the Word of God but refuse to open it, you have gotten up and left the area. But if you open the Word of God, you will be confronted with life. It is then that you must decide to take part, or simply to close the book and go your own way.
     
  3. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Yelsew, no offense, but, all this 58 year old brain can think of in response to your comment is: duh ?
     
  4. Aki

    Aki
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    i think we can use the creation of Adam as a model. God created man's body from the dust, to where it returns. then God breaths to the man, giving him soul, and thus life. these two, the body from dust and the soul from God, returns to their respective sources upon physical death. i see this to be the closest concept for Eccl. 12:7.

    with that, i believe the spirit referred to in Eccl. 12:7 is the soul.

    it should also be a consideration whether OT saints think of the body, soul and spirit to be distinguished. it may be that their knowledge is limited to the body and soul only, which makes it easier to conclude that King Solomon is referring to the soul.

    the spirit that is dead (or separated from God) before regeneration is the soul. meanwhile, judging from the tone and context of King Solomon, i think he is referring to all human beings, when he said that the spirit returns to God who gave it. however, it can be qualified that the spirit returning to God does not immediately mean salvation, but judgment, as King Solomon also touched this in the concluding verses of the chapter: "...for God shall bring every work into judgment..."

    hope this helps.
     
  5. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2
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    Do any of you remember Mary Ann Quinlen? She was in a coma for years. When life support was removed, her flesh continued to live and breath and function on its own for several months, providing hope for her family that she might be able to recover, until it finally died. What power was it that kept her flesh living?

    I believe it was the part of the human trichotomy that quickens the flesh, making the flesh equal to all other animals, but which is separate from human spirit. But unlike the animals, without a spirit to provide life, the flesh could not continue on under is own power for very long. Without a spirit, the flesh had no will to continue living. There was no motivation! No inspiritation!
     

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