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When a Type is not a Type

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by richard n koustas, Sep 18, 2006.

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  1. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    Tell you what.

    I'll take a look at Balaam. If you will reconsider Isaac (or Joseph or Daniel, pick one) as a type.

    NT truths (especially about Jesus) hidden in the OT is good enough for me!
     
    #21 richard n koustas, Sep 25, 2006
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I am all for taking a close look at scripture.

    The big problem I have is the word "hidden". Does that mean certain people have a secret understanding that God didn't give to everyone else?

    I have seen folks compare Isaac's search for a bride with Christ and the church. Unless I see something in the N.T. that specifically ties that story to Christ and the church, then it is "reading into" the story something that is not there. Same with Joseph and Daniel.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #22 canadyjd, Sep 25, 2006
  3. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    No offense here, but the biggest problem with this statement is that big "I" in the middle of it. If "I" don't see something in the NT. . . . Well just because you don't see something doesn't make it untrue.
     
    #23 J. Jump, Sep 25, 2006
  4. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    I (the big "I") will try and pull something together for you about Isaac and his bride. If "I" add something to scripture that is not there, I'm sure you'll let me know. Things "hidden" are meant to be searched out.
     
    #24 richard n koustas, Sep 26, 2006
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, let me rephrase my response.

    Unless a passage in the New Testament specifically mentions Jesus Christ and His church being "typed" by Isaac and his wife, then you are reading into the O.T. passage something that is not there.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #25 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    When you find something, I will give full consideration to the teaching of the passage.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #26 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
  7. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    But it doesn't matter how you phrase it. The NT doesn't tell us that only specific mentions of types are types. That is just a man made rule. Scripture doesn't establish that rule, so why do we as man think we are above Scripture and can place that limitation on It?
     
    #27 J. Jump, Sep 26, 2006
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The N.T. writers used the word "type" when they wanted to refer to something in the O.T. as a "type". Who are we to tell the N.T. authors, who wrote under inspiration of Holy Spirit, that they didn't use the word "type" often enough? Isn't that just a man made rule, to see "types" when the authors themselves didn't use the word? So why do some think they are above scripture by saying the plain teaching of scripture isn't sufficient? Why do some think they have to "read into" scripture things that aren't there, before it has meaning?

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #28 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2006
  9. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Well if you want to place limits on Scripture because the author didn't use a certain word then by all means you are more than welcome to do so. Obviously the "plain" reading of Scripture is not where it is at all the time, or the Israelites would have had it right, but they missed their own Messiah because they didn't understand the "deeper" things of Scripture.

    Now just because you don't agree with someone's take on Scripture does not mean it is "reading" into Scripture things that aren't there.

    See that's just it. If the things "weren't there" the types and anti-types would not line up. But they do. If there is a type in the OT there will be a corresponding anti-type in the NT. If not then it is not a type.

    And if there is a type and an anti-type then it will line up with the rest of the Scripture teaching. That is the safeguard from people running amuck with types.

    Everything lines up in Scripture perfectly.

    But again if you want to stay on the surface of Scripture then by all means do so. As for me I will mine His Words for the treasures that they are.

    Edit: I forgot to make mention of your last comment. It's not that we search deeper before the text has any meaning. It's just that we don't stop at the surface meaning because there is more to it than that. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. The life of Scripture is not always found on the surface!
     
    #29 J. Jump, Sep 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2006
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you want to add to scripture things that aren't there, then by all means you are welcome to do so.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #30 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
  11. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    See that's just it, just because you don't see it or don't want to accept it doesn't mean it is adding to Scripture! That's a strawman!
     
    #31 J. Jump, Sep 26, 2006
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, just because you can find similarities to Old Testament events or people to New Testament events or people, doesn't mean they are types. That's a logical fallacy!

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #32 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
  13. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    I don't see how you can sit there and say something is a logical fallacy if something is more than just "similar" but exact. Do you think it is just by accident so many of those "similarities" are there? I for one don't.
     
    #33 J. Jump, Sep 26, 2006
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Show me the "exact" similarity.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #34 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
  15. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    Isaac as a type

    I hate to interject here, but here goes. this was cut and pasted from a couple posts i made somewere else. I hope it is coherent enough.

    Almost everything we read about Isaac in the book of Genesis is a
    picture or type of Christ. Both men were promised, both had
    miraculous
    births, both were loved and did the will of their father (without
    complaining), were offered as sacrifices, etc.

    We all know the story. When Abraham was tested by God, he went up on
    Mount Moriah with his son Isaac. We all know the
    story of how Abraham was going to sacrifice his one and only son as a
    burnt offering, the angel prevented him, and he found and sacrificed
    a ram. (Gen 22)

    It is interesting that we have no record of Isaac ever coming down
    from
    the mountain (it's like he disappears from the scene). He is not
    even
    mentioned at his mother's funeral. In fact we don't read
    about him
    until Gen. 24:62 when he comes to meet his bride. Isn't this a
    wonderful portrait of Christ? Like Isaac, Christ disappeared (when He
    ascended into heaven)...and will reappear to meet his bride, the
    church!

    Taking a closer look:

    Abraham's servant was sent to a distant place to find Isaac a bride.
    The Holy Spirit was sent (away from Jews to the Gentiles) to fetch a bride for Christ (ie, the church).

    He was led to Rebekah, the one that God has pre-selected.
    Members of the church are predestined.

    He speaks nothing of himself, but only of his master.
    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Jn 15:20

    He gives Rebekah an earnest. (Gen 24:22& 53)
    In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession...    Eph 1:13&14

    Rebekah believes him lock, stock and barrel. Rebekah leaves all behind forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before...to follow him. Just like we, as Christians leave all behind, to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.
    He leads Rebekah to Isaac. And here we have a picture of the great marriage feast of the Lamb!
     
    #35 richard n koustas, Sep 26, 2006
  16. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    J Jump:

    Feel free to JUMP right in here...

    :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #36 richard n koustas, Sep 26, 2006
  17. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    I think you have given one of many examples that could be used here.

    There's just too many to list.
     
    #37 J. Jump, Sep 26, 2006
  18. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas New Member

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    I couldn't agree more...!

    ...if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
     
    #38 richard n koustas, Sep 26, 2006
  19. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    When is a type not a type? Usually when it interferes with conceived notions and man-made teachings.

    It there's a type and an anti-type, then it's a type.

    If what we hold as a belief doesn't line up with it, then we need to closely examine our closely held beliefs.
     
    #39 Hope of Glory, Sep 26, 2006
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    #40 canadyjd, Sep 26, 2006
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