When Are We Disqualified As Preachers/Pastors?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by foxrev, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. foxrev

    foxrev
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK. Here is the situation. You are arrested twice over a period of two years for public drunkeness. You repent of the sin and get help. What then do you do? 1. Go back to your church. 2. Go back to preaching. 3. Get another job besides preaching?

    [ April 06, 2005, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: foxrev ]
     
  2. Paul33

    Paul33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go back to preaching if called by God.
     
  3. foxrev

    foxrev
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can I still be a Pastor, Paul?
     
  4. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    foxrev,
    I say also, go back to preaching (if called by God) but, with a qualifier.

    1. The arena for preaching should be focused. I don't think he would be much good preaching at the church that his civil judge goes to. How about a nursing home or something like that?
    2. This point is more important than any other and that is that the preacher needs accountability. The Scriptures are clear that a man holding office in a church as an elder, preacher, teacher..or deacon..needs to be PROVEN. His pastor needs to know of his personal life circumstances and needs to be checking in constantly for a definite period of time. Once again...accountability.
    Hope this helps.
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  5. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    foxrev,
    In the previous post I covered someone who was in a church as an itinerant preacher or the like. If this person is pastoring the church, he should immediately report this to his church, openly I should add. Then should the church want to keep him in the pulpit he/they should do the things mentioned above focusing on rebuilding his testimony in the public. There may be more that needs to be done but this is just off the top of my thoughts. He should be humble enough to step down if requested also.
    Thanks -------Bart
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Please get another job. You have brought reproach on our Lord and can no longer be "blameless" (the FIRST qualification of a pastor).

    You can and should repent. You must get help. But that does not undo the wrong and magically requalify you for the pastorate. It will take years or decades for people to trust you again and have confidence in you as role model and spiritual guide that a shepherd/teacher must be.

    In the mean time, show you are a changed man by getting another job and supporting your family.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    IMO: In this situation the one involved (assuming repentance) above all should not become embittered about being disqualified as a pastor, after all this one brought it on himself:

    1 Peter 2
    20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

    He will restore all in terms of peace of mind:

    Hebrews 12
    11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

    Then that one should wait upon the Lord (while supporting the family working with hands) for direction:

    Isaiah 31
    31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

    Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
     
  8. mcgyver

    mcgyver
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can only speak for myself, as to what I would do......

    As to the sin itself: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9 NKJV

    We are forgiven and cleansed; however in my case (as one who believes in leading by example), I would have to resign the pastorate and spend time individually with the Lord, that I would be strengthened against re-occurance of that particular sin...There is also the dynamic as to what is best for the flock over which God has made us His under-shepherd.

    I believe that a man who is called by the Lord to pastor His flock can and will be restored by God. As to the time frame...that is between you and our Lord.

    Many a great man has been through the "refiner's fire" and has come out of it stronger than before.
     
  9. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    One possible course of action:

    Get another job for a while.
    Reconcile and earn back the trust of your Christian community.
    Endure the refining discipline of being God's child.
    Wait for God's call to return to the ministry if it ever comes again.
     
  10. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Go back to your church.
    3. Get another job.

    Serve the church in another capacity. Perhaps in a capacity such a Reformers Unanimous. Or at the local homeless shelter or nursing home.

    You can still serve God through your church, but you cannot pastor anymore. And as far as preaching goes; you could still preach, but only after proving yourself clean from alcohol abuse after a few years.

    When I got out of prison, I knew I could never enter the pastorate. (Although I strongly felt His call years before.) So I just attended Bible Institute, served God by nursing home and visitation services. And waited. A few years later, the doors opened for me to go back inot the same prison in which I served my time. I am now a prison preacher. God has used my past as a tool to reach those who will not listen to the "Lilly white".

    So take heart. God does restore you to service. Even though you messed up.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  11. mcgyver

    mcgyver
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for that testimony, Jim.. [​IMG]
     
  12. Paul33

    Paul33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. You can still be a pastor.

    I'm speaking in general terms.

    Do you need to step down, probably. It depends on the church and how forgiving they are. It depends on the nature of the problem and whether the cause has been addressed.

    Preaching can be done anywhere and everywhere. Preach about the grace of God.

    Disqualified forever? Hardly.

    Peter denied his Lord publicly three times. Was he disqualified from being an apostle? No, he wasn't.

    Pride would disqualifier numerous fundamentalist pastors and others from the pulpit. But that sin apparently is as bad as drunkenness. I would beg to differ.

    In any case, God can forgive and restore any person to public ministry if his grace is sufficient.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think resignation, biblical accountability, and staying out of the ministry for a while is absolutely necesarry. Public drunkkneness is being addicted to much wine, to use the words of Paul (the apostles, not the 33 :D ) ...

    He may not be disqualified forever, but certainly for a period of time. He has publicly embarrasssed the church. Subsequent restoration to ministry would necessitate close accountability and probably a change of location.

    And yes, pride is as bad, but doesn't have the same manifestations and public shame. Taht doesn't excuse it and prideful men should leave the ministry immediately.
     
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    McGyver;
    I only give my testimony where it is relavant. But you are welcome.

    As Pastor larry has pointed out, public drunkeness implies a pattern of behaviour. the fact that one was caught at it twice in tow years indicates an ongoing problem. How many times was this person publically (or privately) drunk and NOT caught? So we see the pattern. As such, then the person must be clean for an extended period of time before being restored to full responsibility in a preaching capacity. this does NOT disqualify him from serving during the waiting period. As was mentioned in the OP, repentance has already taken place. Now...there must be fruit of such repentance.

    May God bless and guide you on this long road brother.
    (From experience) There will be those who misunderstand and make trouble for you. Trust God.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  15. Dr.Tim

    Dr.Tim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me sghare a personal exp with you. When I began ministry in 85 and found a church, the church was seeking a pastor. The man they hired had an Ed.D and was a good preahcer. He preached for 6 months then one day they called a deacons meeting. Apprently he had an affair in his former church lasting 14 months. The woman's father called the chairman of deacons and let him know the pastor had not confessed to the former church and the chairman oif deacons at my churhc said the pastor said he had 'no skeletons in his closet'. A few weeks later they forced the pastor to confess to our church and the deacons foolishly called an immediate vote to keep or throw him out. The church , with 900 people, voted to keep him and about 150 left and began a new church. Two m,onths later and after some erratic behavior we called another vote and this time with approx 700 votes he was voted out by over 66% so he left and took about 200 with him. He was extremely angry with me becuase I, as one of the ministry leaders, voted against him. I told him 'you can come to church and sit next to me, but I think you need to resign as pastor. He left and became involved with a large charismatic group, set up his own church and had two more affairs that I am aware of. I saw him after that church put him out and I know he had some kind of breakdown. He signed 'i love you' in sign language and it really crushed me because I was a little harsh with him. Swaggart fell twice, broke from assemblies of God when they tried to disipline him, and is making more money than you could imagine.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Paul, I would wonder about a church who would be "forgiving" of open and continuing drunkeness. Have not many Baptist churches where that kind of sin would be winked at.

    I know you said he'd probably have to step down and get the problem resolved, but the implication is that then he would be forgiven (if the congregation has a mind to) and back in the saddle. I just don't see that as reality.

    We've seen too many of the Bakker/Swaggert type of "repentance" that is just words so that they can get back into power (prestige, money).
     
  17. Paul33

    Paul33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with you Dr. Bob.

    But I'm thinking of a situation, if you can believe this, where a man committed adultery, his wife divorced him, and he stepped out of the ministry for three years and received counseling and then a church called him knowing his background. At this new church he then committed adultery again, and the church told him that he would be fired if it happened again!

    Seems unbelievable, but eventually he did have another affair and the church dismissed him. Now that is a forgiving church!

    Drunkenness doesn't seem to fall into the same category. But I think you are right. He should step down, but nothing surprises me anymore. I'm sure that there is a church out there somewhere that would "forgive" or "condone" drunkenness in their pastor.

    Pretty amazing.

    I also know of pastor who commmited adultery, stepped down for three years, worked on a D.Min. and is now the teaching pastor under a three year contract in a huge Baptist church near Minneapolis. Again, pretty amazing. Or perhaps, I'm just jealous that he was called to a "large" church!

    I know God forgives. I know his grace is sufficient. I believe that pastors can be restored to ministry. And I believe that there are forgiving churches out there. I also know that there are churches who would disqualify a man for life for these sins. Who is right?
     
  18. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,

    I like what you wrote.

    Jim,

    Thank you for sharing from your heart.


    For some others:

    Does how we "feel" change the way that God works? I am not saying that when someone sins we should bash them. But, I have never met a man that was truly sorrowful for his sin that wanted to be a pastor. I do not believe that a Preacher/Pastor has to be lily white (apart from the Blood that is), but there needs to be some time of separation.

    It is time that we QUIT treating God's ministry like a job. It is a calling unto separation. It is answering His call to separate from our sin.

    In Him

    Wayne
     
  19. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    PS ... The treatment of the Pastorate as a mere job is killing the churches.

    PSS ... I almost vented on this one. But, it is time for our Pastors to quit COVERING the TRUTH of the GOSPEL with their SIN.
     
  20. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen Wayne, Amen!

    To paraphrase a US Army ad;
    "It's not just a job, it's a calling".

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     

Share This Page

Loading...