When can we call someone unsaved

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by stilllearning, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Recently on another thread, someone indicated that it is wrong to doubt someone’s salvation based upon what they say or what they do.

    If this was the case, than we could never be permitted to declare anyone unsaved.
    When we clearly can.
    --------------------------------------------------
    We know for sure that every Catholic priest, all the way up to the Pope, is unsaved and in Spiritual darkness.
    (Although, there may be some individual Catholics, who are saved:)
    But if that is the case, they were saved in spite of their Churches teaching, not because of it.

    The Catholics are not alone. The Mormons, the JW’s, the SDA, etc, etc.
    What all of these cults have in common, is they preach a “works based” gospel.
    (This is what makes them cults.)

    Now we just don’t pull this out of the air; This is what the Bible teaches......
    Galatians 1:8-9
    V.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    V.9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    --------------------------------------------------
    Now where it gets sticky, is when someone who preaches the right Gospel, is unsaved and on there way to hell.
    This does happen......
    Matthew 7:21-23
    V.21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    V.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    V.23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    --------------------------------------------------
    Now the reason that I called this “sticky”, is because according to this passage in Matthew, only the Lord knows who these unsaved individuals are.

    Yet Jesus did give us some “clues”; So that we could know the truth about some of these individuals, so as to protect ourselves from being led astray.

    Here is one of those clues.......
    John 5:46-47
    V.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
    V.47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


    This innocent looking passage tells us, that if anyone doesn’t believe, any of the accounts recorded in the first five books of the Bible, “they can not be saved”.
    (Because they will also refuse to believe the Lord’s Words in the New Testament.)

    Now some might ask; “How can we tell what someone else believes?”
    We can only know what they believe, by what they say.
    For instance, if someone says that God didn’t really part the Red sea, than we know, that person can not be saved.
     
  2. annsni

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    That is a rule for Baptist Board - not life in general.
     
  3. Jim1999

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    Sure wish I could be so certain who is saved and who is not.

    I do know two RC priests who have a living relationship with Jesus despite their church's false teaching.

    I know a number of people who do not interpret the creation stories quite the same as fundamentalism. I know that some of them are surely saved.

    There are people who follow dispensationalism, quite a different method of interpreting scripture and many historical events. I believe them to be truly saved........

    Think I will stick with the age old thought: "What think you of Christ, and whose Son is He...."

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. annsni

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    I agree Jim. But I also know that there are those out there who I would think are saved but they are not. So we can't say for sure for many people but I also do think that we can look upon some and know for sure they are not saved. Really only God knows.
     
  5. preacher4truth

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    This forum isn't church. We have to put up, or not, with others beliefs.

    The name calling part can cease, for certain.

    I agree with the passages you give, stilllearning. There are false Gospels for sure, and I don't see it quite as cut and dried as Jim. Intellectual belief doesn't save anyone. It never has. I'm certain Jim agrees and means this also though not elaborated on.

    I do think I know perhaps where you are coming from. In todays economy, one can choose almost whatever he wants to believe, even about Christ, and the thing used is "love" to embrace them, not "truth." When I say embrace I mean as saved no matter what they believe.

    Jesus said the truth will set you free, not love.

    Stick to the Word. Many on here allude to their own abilities, intellect, wisdom, above and beyond God and His Word as a panacea to a dying world. I'll stick to the Gospel. It is the power of God, not us.
     
  6. stilllearning

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    Hello Jim1999

    You said......
    I tried to make it clear, that none of these positions have anything to do with my personal opinion.

    “I”, don’t know anything about anybody.
    All I know is what the Bible says.

    Now I didn’t know, that “the creation stories”, were open to interpretation.
    The Bible says what it means and it means what it says.

    Now certainly people have tried to twist what the Bible says, but “a day” is a day.
    --------------------------------------------------
    As for your friends, who are RC priests; I assume that since they are priests, that they serve in a leadership capacity in their Churches, doing things like serving mass, etc.

    It would be hard pressed for me, to consider anyone who “does these kinds of things”, to be truly saved, regardless of how kindhearted and Godly they may seem.

    But as I said, I am not judging anyone “in this thread”.
    --------------------------------------------------
    By the way, were did you get that age old thought: "What think you of Christ, and whose Son is He....?

    I can't put my finger on this passage.
     
  7. preacher4truth

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  8. Jim1999

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    A Jewish day was not always 24 hours!!!! We learn this as we study the day of the crucifixion...One day with the Lord is as 1000 years.

    Sorry, I can't agree on the day thing.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. stilllearning

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    Thanks for the address.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    You're welcome.

    I happen to believe it was 24 hour periods, and literally therefore a week.

    Many have problems with this, especially after learning Darwinistic theory, believing that dating by science is accurate, that things are billions and billions of years old, &c.

    I believe this has lended toward believing that it had to take ages for God to do these things.
     
  11. Tom Butler

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    We don't have to be judges, but we can be fruit inspectors.
     
  12. Robert Snow

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    I believe those passages refer to false teachers, not individuals particularly.

    Unless someone flat out denies Christ (even then it could be that they are not being honest with themselves), I don't think we can ever know for sure about someone's relationship with God. I know there has been times in my life were a person would not have thought I was saved; I have even doubted my own salvation. But, thanks be to God, I know that I have been born again, according to the Word of God.
     
  13. charles_creech78

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    I don't think we have that right to call someone unsaved. God is the only one that can look inside and know what is in man. We can tell by someones fruit that they bare. But to walk up to someone and tell them that they are not saved is just wrong! I will leave it to God to judge the inward man :)
     
  14. stilllearning

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    Hello charles_creech78

    I was kind of shocked, when you said........
    I was shocked, because I regularly read the Bible, and the Bible regularly tells us to call some people “unsaved”.

    For instance, if we follow your instructions, how could we apply........
    2 Corinthians 6:14
    “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?”


    How could we know, who to separate from?
    --------------------------------------------------
    To say nothing about.......
    Ephesians 5:11
    “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].”


    or

    Galatians 2:4
    “And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”


    or

    2 John 1:9
    “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

    --------------------------------------------------
    I think what we are seeing here, is what “political correctness” looks like, when it sneaks into the Church.

    It comes to the same foolish conclusions, that it does in the world.
     
  15. charles_creech78

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    I never gave you instructions. I just told you I would not walk up to someone and say they are not saved. I believe we should not do that! Now if you want to get into the word of God we can.

    1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
    1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
    1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. You put them away and let God judge them! They already know they are not saved. So why would you go and say that to them? Let God judge them! The Inward man? God bless!
     
    #15 charles_creech78, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2011
  16. stilllearning

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    Hello again charles_creech78

    I love it when people use Scripture to respond. Thank you.

    I am not talking about “judging them”: I am talking about “identifying them”.

    I have never, walked up to anybody, and told them they were unsaved!
    But many times, I have pointed out someone to others, who demonstrated by their words, that they were unsaved.
    --------------------------------------------------
    As I said in my OP, this is a “sticky” situation; Therefore sometimes I simply say, “This person might not be saved, or this person wasn’t saved when he said this”.

    Jesus said.......
    Matthew 12:34
    “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”


    Therefore, we can accurately determine if people are saved, by what comes out of their mouth.
    --------------------------------------------------
    This is not judging, it is discerning!
     
  17. Jim1999

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    I don't believe in a universal flood. Guess that renders me unsaved. I think the Israelites crossed at the Reed Sea and not the Red Sea...Guess I am lost again. There goes that scripture that reads: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..." The Bible forgot to add all those provisions.

    What about all those fundamentalists who taught the "gap theory" in Genesis? Those poor folks such as C.I Scofield were really unsaved.

    As a youngster, guess I wasn't truly saved either because I realized Jesus as Saviour in the Church of England, I was sprinkled as an infant and was blessed by a Bishop at Confirmation. We genuflected in the aisles and always kneeled in the pews and at the altar.

    I think of all those poor people I knelt beside and held their hands as they died on the battlefield when I was an Anglican Chaplain in the Canadian army.

    I do believe there are some obvious signs that many unsaved leave with us. I think there are also some obvious signs that believers ought to leave with us.

    I don't condemn the arminians in here who reject my calvinism. I accept them as brothers and sister in Jesus.

    Thank God a man can come to Jesus without all the trappings, and learn as a child, and grow in the Lord unto the day of his physical death.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. charles_creech78

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    Well the thread is called When can we call someone unsaved! I think it would be better if they word it right! They should of called the thread when can we accurately know when someone is not saved. I don't think we have that right to say to someone that they are unsaved. We can say we believed that they are not saved by the fruits that they bare. I would not go to a funeral and preach someone in hell because I think that they are not saved. I would preach that I leave them in the hands of a all wise and living God. God is the only one that can look inside our hearts and know if we are right with him. Now if we see a brother sin a sin unto death then we would have to put him from us and let God judge him according to his will. But to call a brother a brother and say to him you are not saved it just bothers me! God bless.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    Have you looked at Creation Science evidence that tends to prove otherwise, that there was a worldwide flood?

    I highly respect these men who have given their life study for this.
     

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