When christians make a show out of supernatural stuff

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    What do you think about this? Do you think that God likes it when christians make a show out of the works of the holy spirit?
    Once I saw a video of somebody who often does healing services. He did some things I had never seen before. For example he told all the sick people to stand in 1 row and then he let the holy spirit flow through all of them like a stream and they all started to shake and fall down. I have never seen something like this before. Or he could stand a few feet away from a person and then use his hand and when he moved his hand in the air the person would start to move too, like a puppet! He didn't touch the person but the person would move, shake and crumble and make strange movements. I often see this in charismatic churches. The people are standing upright and at the same time they are bending over and bending back and shaking and crumbling and it looks really strange and I just don't know what to think of this. I mean I don't know if this is God's style and I also don't want to limit God and I also don't want to blaspheme the holy spirit by attributing a work from him to the enemy. :(
    But how shall we know what's real and what isn't real?
    For example this christian who does healing services could also lay his feet on people and they would also start to shake. Some of them had problems with their feet and when he prayed for them he put his shoe on their shoe and then they would also start to shake and fall down. Or he even said he can also send the holy spirit through his eyes and then he stood in front of a person and opened his eyes and moved his head forward a few inches and blinked and the person would fall down.
    I didn't really like this and I asked myself wether God likes it when christians make a show out of this. :confused:
    But on the other hand the argument of many christians is that you cannot tell God what to do and you cannot limit God and the bible also says that Jesus did many more miracles which were not all written down and this serves as a justification for almost anything. And of course their best argument is the blaspheming the holy spirit stuff because then you can always scare christians and tell them that if they do not accept certain miracles they're blaspheming the holy spirit just like the pharisees did. The question is wether a sincere christian who is only seeking the truth can even do this even if he is wrong.
    Another thing which makes no sense to is that all the charismatic churches have the same stuff going on, they all have the same list of phenomenas. Speaking in tongues, slain by the spirit, laughing in the spirit. Why is this? It almost seems like a franchise to me. If all this stuff is from God why is it ONLY in charismatic churches? There are also other churches which are open to God and God doesn't do such things there, why? Why should God act differently in different churches depending on their denomination?
     
  2. Pete

    Pete
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,345
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    Question to ask...

    When doing "Showy Stuff" who gets the Glory?

    Jesus or the "Healer"?

    Nuff Said?

    Mike Sr.

    Of course if a *real* verifiable miracle does take place it may be hard to hide it...

    But, I have a *very* dim view of people seeking noteriety based on God's Power...
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    I would have to ask if that "really was" the work of the Holy Spirit.
     
  5. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,457
    Likes Received:
    93
    'Tongues,' shaking, dropping [or "slain by the spirit"].... yeah, yeah... Let's see somebody with nothing but a stump of an arm or leg grow a new one, then we may talk about the works of the Spirit.
     
  6. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me encourage you with this, disciple-- Just because someone "says" it is God does not invoke the "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" scenario. For one thing, one does not ignorantly blaspheme the Holy Spirit; He witnesses to our hearts, and no one can hide from that through an honest mistake, but an intentional mistake.

    But let me show you what I believe is the scriptural example of the ludicrious stuff you were describing...

    Exodus 32:2 And Aaron said unto them: 'Break off the golden rings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.'
    3 And all the people broke off the golden rings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
    4 And he received it at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, and made it a molten calf; and they said: 'This is thy god, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.'
    5 And when Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said: 'To-morrow shall be a feast to the LORD.'
    6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt-offerings, and brought peace-offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to make merry.
    7 And the LORD spoke unto Moses: 'Go, get thee down; for thy people, that thou broughtest up out of the land of Egypt, have dealt corruptly;
    8 they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them; they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed unto it, and said: This is thy god, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.'

    I think the passage speaks for itself in this instance. :)

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  7. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of my NT Favorites:

    1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    of course without this:

    Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    It's really hard to Try or Test whether something is from God or not...

    Lastly, no amount of "Head Knowledge" Is enough because:

    1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    So, the First Step is to Know Christ Personally not just know about Christ...

    Mike Sr.
     
  8. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi!
    But if it was sooo easy to discern what's from God and what not then why are so many christians arguing about it? I mean this whole Azuza Street/ Toronto blessing debates. Some say it's not God others threaten that that it's God and that those which say it's not God blaspheme the holy spirit...
     
  9. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all, IMHO, the Azusa Street revival was a unique sovreign work of God...

    I don not think you can equate The Toronto Blessing with Azusa Street. That is like comparing Apples to Oranges...

    And, IMHO, shows a level of prideful arrogance that is rivaled only by satan himself...

    I believe that the Toronto Blessing started out as a genuine move of God's Spirit...

    But, in typical Pentecostal naivete they couldn't handle things quieting down so they tried to keep it going and started accepting "strange fire"...

    Heres a quote from a sermon I delivered:
    If I am not mistakes some of the best meals are those that you bring to a boil them simmer 'til done? Not to mention some confections?

    The fighting is because people are involved and they believe that by challenging something you are Quenching the Holy Spirit...

    (Actually it has nothing to do with Quenching the Holy Spirit and everything to do with whose Ox they believe is being gored.)

    On the contrary we are specifically told to Test the Spirits to see if they are of God or not...

    And, for Prophets to Judge Prophecy...

    (I believe this is a hint that *all* manifestations purported to be in the Spirit are to be 'Judged' by those who operate in them.)

    If questioning and challenging that which seems out of order were so bad? Why would we be specifically told to do so?

    Mike Sr.
     
  10. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    I whole-heartedly agree, SpiritualMadMan. Paul commended the Bereans for putting his message to the light of Scripture; I believe God would expect nothing less from us.
    Due to my past, from time to time I have spirits come to me (I don't see apparitions or other manifestations anymore like in my childhood) and attempt to deceive me. They try to immitate the Holy Spirit. How does one test this? God does not contradict Himself-- if it goes against the meaning of Scripture, then it is false. The devil will try to twist Scripture, so it is important to know the heart of the Word and not just the letter. Become aquainted in that way, and you will not be seduced by Christian-pagan revelry.

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  11. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    But how do you test things like rolling on the floor or the laughing anointing? I mean how do you know if this is God or something else? The bible does not mention these things, this means the bible doesn't help you judging those phenomena.
    Those which think it's God will simply say: Do you think you can put God in a box and know what he would do and what not?
     
  12. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wholesale?

    I have a problem with the wholesale distribution of such 'manifestations'.

    Now, I have been in meetings and something has struck me as 'funny' and I've started laughing and couldn't stop...

    Laughter being as contagious as it is, would add participants to it's peer group. [​IMG]

    But, I can't say that such a thing **IS THE HOLY SPIRIT**...

    I am sure God has a sense of humor and I believe laughter doeth good like a medicine...

    So, it's "Possible" that God *could* do such a thing...

    I have never understood "Holy Rolling"...

    Heard about it growing up...

    Never seen it...

    Not sure if I even want to believe it's Scriptural...

    I sure can't think of a Scripture to support it...

    I guess my key suspician is this:

    1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

    This would seem to, in my view, say that God is disinclined to give a particular 'manifestation' to everyone at the same time.

    So, I think this is where my strong concern is based when it comes to the "wholesale" distribution of 'manifestations'...

    Are we seeking Jesus...

    Or, are we seeking the manifestations...

    The signs are supposed to follow believers...

    NOT, believers following signs! :D

    Mike Sr.
     
  13. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    disciple, the Bible doesn't mention cloning; do you think it's impossible to determine the moral veracity or spiritual acceptability of such an attempt? Principle is principle, it doesn't matter what time or place it is, a principle still takes effect. That is the purpose of a principle.
    What you mention there-- "Don't put God in a box, how can you determine what He can or cannot do," is a pathetic justification of fleshly glorification and is based chiefly in an argument from silence ("The Bible doesn't specifically say NOT to..").
    I don't want you to think I'm dumping on you; I just want to be clear, as it seems your doubts have been muddling the matter that should otherwise be clear.
    Perhaps a passage from Scripture would help:

    Philippians 3:17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
    18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
    19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.

    Pray and meditate on that and see where you end up. [​IMG]

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     

Share This Page

Loading...