When Did Jesus Ascend?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by richard n koustas, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. - John 20:17

    Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27

    Did He 'accend' sometime between these two verses? Why did he tell Mary not to touch him and invites Thomas to touch ten verses later?
     
  2. Archeryaddict

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    I think you answered youre own question.
     
  3. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    that's what i always thought...until my 'pastor' told me i was wrong :rolleyes: (There are many things we do not agree on...) ;) i just wanted to see what everyone here thinks.
     
  4. Johnv

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    richard n koustas, Thomas didn't touch him. Jesus invited him, but he did not. He saw, without touching, and believed. Mary, otoh, went to touch him, and he prevented it.

    OTOH, it was a week betweek Mary seeing him and Thomas seeing him.

    This is a case of "either interpretation is possible".

    I tend to think that Jesus remained on the earth until he ascended, and once he ascended, he did not walk the earth (in a physical fashion) again.
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Jesus' words to Mary were more along the lines of, "Don't cling to me." He had things to do in the short time before His ascension and knew he would be leaving, of course.

    Jesus had Thomas touch him so he could see it was really Jesus and he was really resurrected. Mary believed but was clinging; Thomas was doubting and needed evidence.
     
  6. Archeryaddict

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    jesus did ascend to the father because he told mary that was where he was fixing to go.

    John 20:17. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    I am almost certan Thomas did in fact touch Jesus

    John 20:24. But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
    25. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
    26. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
    27. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
    28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
    29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

    [ January 06, 2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Archeryaddict ]
     
  7. Archeryaddict

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    just because youre pastor says you are wrong does not make it so.
    Challenge him to scripturally proove you wrong and not of his own opinion.
     
  8. Archeryaddict

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    scriptuer is clear what Jesus said to Mary

    John 20:17. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

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    Study the word "touch" in verse 17. It is the Greek word ηαπτομαι (haptomai). It literally means, "to attach oneself to." Jesus was saying, in essence, "Do not cling to Me." Mary was about fall at His feet and worship Him and may have been resolved to remain with Him.

    Adam Clarke writes:
    Therefore, He was not forbidding Mary to touch Him as we would define "touch;" it is likely that she did touch Him.
     
  10. Archeryaddict

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    It also litrally means DO NOT TOUCH.
    It is likely that Jesus Knew Mary wanted to touch Him but he stopped her by commanding her "touch me not"
    commentairys are nothing more than mans specculation I have a bible that I can read for my self and draw my own conclusions from.
     
  11. Pastor_Bob

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    That certainly is your prerogative friend. But, the Scriptures do teach us that there is safety in the multitude of counsel.

    Apollos had the Scriptures as well. In fact, the Bible says that he was "mighty in the scriptures." Still, he had enough character to allow Aquila and Priscilla to teach him and "expound unto him the way of God more perfectly." Acts 18:24-26
     
  12. Archeryaddict

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  13. Scarlett O.

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    I'm glad that you read your own Bible and draw conclusions from it for yourself.

    Many people don't.

    But wouldn't your "own conclusion" also be "man's speculation"?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O. [​IMG]
    <><
     
  14. Marcia

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    In several translations, including the NASB, NKJV, ESV, and others, it says "do not cling."

    The word comes from a word meaning to fasten to, lay hold of, cling to.

    In saying that Jesus ascended right after this, you are reading a meaning into the text that is not there. There is no indication that Jesus ascended then, and even if he said "Don't touch me," how does that prove He did ascend? What's your point?

    This verse is often used by JWs who do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ in order to make their false point that Jesus was some kind of ghost.
     
  15. Johnv

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    Upon further study, in this context, it does not simply mean "do not touch at all". The previous post is correct about the Greek word haptomai having the context "to attach oneself to" or "to cling to". You are incorrectly (but innocently) looking at the English without regard to the original Greek context. It's a common, but honest, mistake.
     
  16. Scarlett O.

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    Disagree with me if you will, but I believe this.

    Jesus was kind to those whom He considered His inner circle of friends. He was in authority, but never negatively authoritative to those who loved Him and were in need.

    He was compassionate to those in pain. And Mary Magdelene was in pain.

    I believe that when Jesus revealed Himself to her that she grabbed Him like a lost child grabs onto his mother when they are reunited. A bear-type cling that is not easily separated.

    I believe that what he told her if put in our manner of speaking is this:

    "It's alright, Mary. It's OK. I'm not going to Heaven just yet....You don't have to hang on to Me so tightly....go and tell the others....go now. Go and tell them that I am ALIVE that I will be going to be with God, the Father, your Father, their Father, My Father!

    Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
  17. Archeryaddict

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    Pastor I agree and I can understand that Mary fell on her knees to Worship Jesus and she probably wanted to wrap her arms around him to cling on to Him as stated but the bible is clear what Jesus told Mary " touch me not" so that indicates to me she obeyed his command and did not touch Him because he had not yet ascended to his father but when he came to the 11 he had already ascended to the father. John 20:17but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. this passage of scripture plainly indicates that Jesus in fact ascended to the Father before he visited the 11 desiples. I am not going to read something into the scriptures thatI cannot plainly see, for me to do so is meerly theroy on my part. I have the written word and that is good enough for me.

    2Tim 2:15
     
  18. Archeryaddict

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    I'm glad that you read your own Bible and draw conclusions from it for yourself.

    Many people don't.

    But wouldn't your "own conclusion" also be "man's speculation"?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O. [​IMG]
    <><
    </font>[/QUOTE]No if I do not read into something that is not literally written down.

    Does the Bible mean what it says?
    Ask God in the name of Jesus...
    what does the Scripture CLEARLY say?
    what does the scripture NOT say
    who was the Book written to?
    who wrote it?
    Who said it?

    Dont bring youre own personal assumptions ans preconcieved notions into youre understanding or conclusions.

    do not make conclusions based on partial facts or insufficient information or the opinions or speculations of others.

    opinions regardless how strongly you feel about them, don't necessirialy count.
     
  19. Johnv

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    I'm assuming you're reading the KJV. You're completely missing one point. In early 17th century vernacular, telling someone "touch me not" carried the context "do not cling to me". Today, it simply means "do not make contact with me". A person reading scripture in 1611 would have understood it in the same manner as the Greek, which is "do not cling to me". You're reading 2004 meaning into 1611 text.

    Actually, if you're reading 2004 meaning into 1611 text, that's exactly what you're doing: You're reading someting into scriptures that was not plainly seen at the time the translation was issued.
     
  20. Pastor_Bob

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    I will agree that the best commentary on the Bible is the Bible itself. I commend you for your zeal and faith in taking the Word of God at face value; there are many who do not possess the faith to do that.

    However, please do not discount the benefit of good Bible commentaries, dictionaries, lexicons, etc... Remember the Ethiopian Eunuch had to have Philip's commentary on the portion of Scripture that he was reading before he fully understood.
     

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