When Did the Church Start?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mnw, Nov 18, 2006.

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When Did the Church Start?

  1. In the Old Testament

    6 vote(s)
    8.6%
  2. In the Earthly Ministry of Christ

    20 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. At Pentecost

    41 vote(s)
    58.6%
  4. During Paul's Ministry

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  1. mnw

    mnw
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    I am not sure I want to personally get into this discussion, but I was curious as to the position of others on the board concerning the beginning of the Church.

    So, here is a poll. It's probably been done a million times before but I could not find it with the search function.

    Now, I've seen some people get very dogmatic and unkind on this particular topic, so let's play nice. :)
     
    #1 mnw, Nov 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2006
  2. Allan

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    The church is made up of those people who are placed into Christ via the Holy Spirit. We are in and maintain that presence [in] Christ due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and which is referred to also as the sealing unto/until THAT day of redemtion. None of this with the context of scripture is even applicable until Christ died, rose, and assended into Heaven that the Spirit could be poured out or given because it could not come until He left. On the day of Pentacost we see this being fulfilled and it is only here we see in Acts Chapter two the first time scripture recording that God 'added' to the church. When did it start if this was the first recorded adding. It had to be AFTER Christ left but also had to be BEFORE those in Acts 2 was saved.

    That leaves us with the account of the Spirit coming upon those believers who were waiting for that empowering from on high. This empowering comes only through the Spirit of God and is only for Believers (the Church) IN Christ and we are only believers when the Holy Spirit creates in us a new nature and with this new nature comes the ministry of reconciliation (preaching of the gospel) and ambassadership of Christ into the world (representors of Gods Kingdom) as well as joint-heirs to the Kingdom (part of Gods family). All of which are a direct result of the Spirit bringing us into the body of Christ and as we see in Acts 2 are exactly as the believers did but ONLY after the Spirit of God came upon them first!
     
  3. LeBuick

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    I went with Pentecost....


    What about the confession of Peter? That is not a choice?
     
  4. Allan

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    What do you mean??
     
  5. Amy.G

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    Matthew 16:15-16 Peter's confession that Jesus is the Christ
    Matthew 16:18 Upon this rock I will build My church

    I believe this is what he means.
    :)
     
  6. LeBuick

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    Correct, some believe the Church age started with this confession. I personally don't because Christ had yet to attone our sins.
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    So, there were no believers before Christ came?

    Who is that coming up out of the wilderness leaning on her beloved.

    She is but one, the choice one of her Mother.

    She is like a merchant ship, she reacheth out her hand to the poor.

    Wisdom hath already built her house, she hath mingled her wine and set her table.

    Able offered up his offering in faith.

    Noah was a preacher of righteous.

    He came to his own but the received Him not but as many as did He gave them power to become the sons of God.

    No church under the Law or ever.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    There you go Brother Bob, IF I fixed it all up for ya... Now it's in the original Greek. :laugh: :laugh: :wavey: :thumbsup:
     
  9. npetreley

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    Um................who cares?
     
  10. EdSutton

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    You think maybe - God cares?? :confused:

    I think that, anyway.

    Ed
     
  11. mnw

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    I love it when people post that they don't care. :) And let me add, I've done that myself.

    Anyway, my understanding would be along the lines of Allan's.

    I have to ask this though. The opponants of this view often come back with, "So there were no believer's before Pentecost?" How is the connection made between not being in the church means not being a believer?

    If belief is the only criteria, well, the devil's believe.
     
  12. ituttut

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    Tried to vote for both Churches, but program would only take one.
     
  13. David Michael Harris

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    Amen.

    God knows those who are His.

    It's all Grace.
     
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    This is actually a question that I have wrestled with lately and am still working through it.
     
  15. David Michael Harris

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    I guess you could say the church started in the mind of God, He predestined us before the creation. I voted @ Pentecost but what do I know.

    Praise God for His Grace.
     
  16. EdSutton

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    :laugh: :laugh:

    And you do know what I mean, here. I was waiting to see when or if you might 'vote'.

    Ed
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    Called "faith", Abel had it.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    Also, Thanks LeBuick for all them "if's" but I need them on the other thread. :)
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    Who were they that was required to give tithes under the Law and who did they give them to, if it was not the Church, as most of you require of your members. You want to use their tithe commandment but not call them a Church? Who was the "elect lady"? Were they not all brought along with us to the same table? Did not Christ bring all things together in one?
    I grant you, it was not called "Church" but they were a body of people of which a Church is, which have faith. Were not that body that received Christ given the power to become the sons of God. What about all those who died before Christ came, were they not also covered by the blood of Christ. If they were all covered by the blood of Christ then were they not all His. If they were all His, were they not the Church? Or do you believe they were not covered by the blood of Christ. When Christ said "upon this rock I build my Church", He didn't say "I begin my Church". Do you not think He included all those who were faithful under the Law and beyond? Are the only people going to Heaven, just those who were born from the days of Peter? Just asking. :)
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Nov 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2006
  20. mnw

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    Certain elements of the Law are easily identifiable as crossing over into the church. I have no problem saying that the giving of the New Testament may not actually be a tithe so it is a bit of a straw man argument. Though, Abraham gave a tithe long before Israel was a nation. I believe a tithe in the NT is a principle, not a law.

    A church is more than just a body of people who believe. I believe salvation is the same, whenever and wherever. The OT sacrifices looked forward to the Messiah.

    But to equate a body of believers who were under the blood as the church is making a connection where the Bible does not.

    When Christ said He would build His church He spoke in an undeniably future tense. If the church was already in existance why would He not have said: "I will continue to build my church" or "I am building my church"?

    Let me ask this, was Christ the head of the nation of Israel in the same way He is the Head of the Church according to Ephesians 1?
     
    #20 mnw, Nov 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2006

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