When Jesus cleared the Temple

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by jacob62, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. jacob62

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    In Matt 21:12-13; Mark 11:12-18; Luke 19:45-46,Jesus clears the temple of money changers and dove sellers. How does this scripture apply to us today as we keep in mind Christ is the same today,yesterday,and tomorrow? Why did He do it and could this have anything to do with selling books and music today? I invite your opinions with scriptural backing.
     
  2. billwald

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    The problem was they were selling in the Court of the Gentiles which was dedicated to worship. Does selling stuff prevent people from worshipping?
     
  3. jacob62

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    Well right off the bat with no scripture,thanx billwald
     
  4. dianetavegia

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    Money Changers were thieves (den of thieves) who cheated the people while exchanging their local money for acceptable money for offerings.
    Doves, sheep, oxen being sold as a sacrifice was showing disrespect or lack of reverence because they were not only being sold for offerings but for the Passover feast which was approaching. The area had become the supermarket of that day.

    Leviticus 1:14
    'And if the burnt sacrifice of his offering to the Lord is of birds, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves or young pigeons.

    Doves are symbols of:
    The Holy Spirit
    Matthew 3:16; John 1:32

    Of the meekness of Christ
    Solomon 5:12

    Of the church
    Solomon 2:14; 5:2

    Genesis 15:9
    So He said to him, "Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon."
     
  5. DHK

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    Basically Jesus "cleansed" the Temple. It had become "defiled." What they were doing was "profane." The Temple was the symbolic place of God's dwelling, God's presence. The church does not take the place of the Temple, so there is no comparison here. The temple of the New Testament is the body:

    1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    In as much as Jesus cleansed the Temple of the Old Testament by throwing out the money changers and those who would defile "His Father's house," so we are to recognize that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, and come under the control of God's Spirit. We cannot do what we wish; we belong to God. He has ownership over us. He is our Lord. Let us make sure that our lives are pure and holy, and not profane and worldly, as the merchants were making the Temple in the days of Christ.
    DHK
     
  6. jacob62

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    So is it possible that we defile the temple by selling "christian" books and music?
     
  7. music4Him

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    [​IMG] Thats the way I see it (well except on the music part). I get so irritated exspecially on the selling of books or teaching tapes though. For the simple reason Christians should help each other.....these people making money by selling their advice on what the Lord has showed them is (in my opinion and as Diane has pointed out in her post above) robbing and cheating the people.
     
  8. DHK

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    Do you sell books from the inside of your body?? :rolleyes: YOU are the temple of God not your church or any building.

    There were no church buildings until 250 years after the death of the Apostles. It is not wrong to sell books in a church building, because church buildings have nothing to do with the temple; and we don't have buildings that are Temples. We are not Jews.
    To make the parallel more graphic and more logical, the early Christians met in the catacombs in Rome. If they threw out all things that defiled they would have had to throw out all the dead bodies that were buried there. It was like a vast cemetary. They met there out of fear of the persecution of the Romans. The church is not a building. The church are the people (the believers) that meet in the building. They can meet anywhere: a field, a tent, a cemetary, a community hall, anywhere. A church building was not used until two and a half centuries after the death of the Apostles. There is nothing wrong with selling books in the "meeting place" of the church. The meeting place is not the church. The believers that gather together are the church. The believer is the Temple of God. The only way that you can defile that temple is by the type of books and music you are selling. If it is ungodly music and books that will defile the body and/or the mind, yes of course it is wrong. God forbid, that a church would have so littles sense then to sell ungodly materials to their members.
    DHK
     
  9. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Matthew 10-7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
    9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,


    I have trouble with people who deliberately ignore the scripture above! Like the people that sell their books and music in the back of the church. Or a preacher on T.V. that preaches a fantastic sermon and then wants you to buy the video for $25!!

    We are not supposed to have to have to pay to learn the gospel

    I know I;m preaching to the choir because Diane and Music have both said the same thing. [​IMG]

    But it just irratates me that something so simple can be passed over by the masses.

    freely ye have received, freely give

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  10. jacob62

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    Ok,Ive read that its ok to sell and its not ok to sell with some in between,interesting.
     
  11. Caissie

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    Cool thing:

    Guess when Jesus "clensed" the temple. Right before Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

    In preparation of the Passover, the Jews would go through their house in search for leaven (leaven represents sin [Matthew 16:6-12, Luke 12:1, 1 Corinthians 5:2-8]) and clean all the leaven from their house.

    In Matthew 21:1-13, you can see that Jesus went into Jerusalem, then cast out the thieves from the temple. So, that would mean that at the same time the Jews were cleaning the leaven from their houses, God was cleaning the leaven (sin) from His house.
     
  12. StefanM

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    In the Markan version of this event, we see it in the form of an intercalation (two stories woven together to be interpreted in light of each other).

    Mark 11:12-14...Jesus curses a fig tree.

    from v. 14 "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." (ESV)

    Mark 11:15-19--the "cleansing" of the temple

    Mark 11:20-25--lesson from the fig tree

    from v. 21, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered."


    I think that the key to understanding this passage is to understand the temple as being cursed as opposed to being cleansed.
     
  13. DHK

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    True enough. But God's house in the Old Testament (the Temple) is your body (not the church building) in the New Testament. "Be ye holy for I am holy."
    DHK
     
  14. tamborine lady

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  15. DHK

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    Jesus, at that time never cursed the Temple, He cleansed it of the people who defiled it and misused it--the money changers, etc.

    The cursing of the fig tree had directly to do with the Jewish nation, particularly the scribes and Pharisees. If you want to read about specific curses that he laid upon them read Mat.23.
    DHK
     
  16. pastorjeff

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    The problem with this referance is it is taken out of context. The command to freely give what was received was the power to heal and so forth. They were provided for by God through the people they stayed with. Not all people who sell tapes sell them for great profit. I would ask this. If God has freely given you the strength and ability to do something, why do you charge for the services provided. This is only one instance of a person being sent forth. Even Paul said that he had a right to make a living by preaching the gospel (1 Cor. 9:3-12). Or what of the worthy Elder who labors in the Word (1 Tim. 5:17, 18)?
     
  17. DHK

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    1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    You are the Temple of God, not the church, and especially not the church building where books are sold.

    1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
     
  18. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Lets all jump on the Tamborine Lady!! Whatever I post is wrong according to somebody.

    Go ahead and sell your books at church and do whatever you want too!!

    God Bless you all!!

    Tam
     
  19. Eric B

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    What also always came to mind to me was Prov. 23:23 "Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding". I guess the question is who is this aimed at. Are the publishers of Christian music, books, Bibles (WAY too expensive!) etc. exempt, and it is passed down to the buyers only? :D
     
  20. SouthernBoy

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    DHK,

    "There were no church buildings until 250 years after the death of the Apostles."

    This is not a true statement. I have been researching this recently. It turns out there where quite a few "church buildings" before that time frame. For example,

    The recent finding of the Early Church at Aqaba. You can read about at Archaeology Magazine:
    http://www.archaeology.org/9811/newsbriefs/aqaba.html

    "The remains of the oldest known structure designed and built as a church have been found at the Jordanian Red Sea port of Aqaba. Pottery, such as Tunisian red-slipped tableware, from the building's foundations dates the church to the late third or beginning of the fourth century, according to its excavator, North Carolina State University archaeologist S. Thomas Parker. That the building was a church is indicated by its eastward orientation, overall plan (a basilica with a central nave flanked by side aisles), and artifacts, such as glass oil lamp fragments."

    I believe from other sites it was dated around 240 AD.

    Also, if you count the catacombs in Rome as "churches" then the frescos date back to 100 AD. Again Archaeology Magazine has the story:
    http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/peter.html

    I was surprised to learn how ancient some of the monasteries have dated in Egypt. For example, St. Antony's Monastery dates to around 250 AD I believe.
    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/antony.htm

    There has been recent findings Dura Europos, Syria which date to around 230 AD. A Christian House Church was discovered complete with Christian Frescos.
    The University of Pittsburgh has a good link on the findings.
    http://www.pitt.edu/~tokerism/0040/syl/christian.html

    There are many more findings but I think you get the point and I don’t feel like stating them here. One thing that struck me was the fact that these Churches all had Frescos or Icons and altars. Most where aligned to face east (Jerusalem)
     

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