When Jesus prayed in the Garden ....

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by All about Grace, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    ..."take this cup from me," what human emotion was he displaying?

    This question is particularly for Aaron and Preach but do not hold your breath waiting for a simple answer.
     
  2. dianetavegia

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    This is going to have many answers and I look forward to each one. Oh how He must have felt... being fully God, and fully knowing what He faced, and being fully man and fearing what was to come.

    Thank you Jesus, for taking that cup so I no longer have to fear death and punishment.

    Diane
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron
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    SBC,

    You still don't get it, do you? Let's go to a more definite description of Christ exhibiting a human emotion: anger.

    Mark 3:1-5, And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    Many will take this verse and justify their own anger saying it's just a normal human emotion. Jesus was angry.

    The problem you face is that none of us can comprehend righteous anger. All our anger is polluted and sinful and will NOT work the righteousness of God, James 1:20.

    We cannot evaluate Christ's experiences by our own. That is what you are attempting to do.

    [ March 27, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  4. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
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    I believe that Christ was worried about the separation from the Father during that moment. They had never been separated before, but when Christ took all our sins upon himself that coused the Father to separate from the Son. At least until the sin was gone.
     
  5. Molly

    Molly
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    Everything Jesus did was holy and like God because He was human,but fully God....in no way could Jesus act in a way that was apart from God...so with that as my logic,I can only say that Jesus could not have any sinful thinking,fear included(that shows a lack of faith). Jesus knew God's will was perfect and he accepted it and wanted it. His desire was to be pleasing to the Father in all things.

    I'd like to read what Aaron and PTW think about that particular verse that you qouted.....

    Hi,SBC!!! [​IMG]
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    God put into our human nature the 'fight or flight' method of dealing with fear. God knew, we as humans, were going to have fear. Have you ever counted the number of times God tells us in the Bible not to fear? Would that be necessary if fear was not a problem? Fear is NOT a lack of faith unless you live in it.

    To answer the original question: I believe Jesus was saddened by the coming separation with His Father, no matter how brief, and the weight of the sins of the world on His shoulders. (He who was without sin)

    Blessings,
    Sue
     
  7. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    I am not the prophet nor the son of one, but you sure fulfilled my prophecy. I am simply amazed the extent to which you will go to avoid answering a simple question.
     
  8. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Molly, see the Lucado thread to address the issues you raise here.

    I've been trying to get them to explain it for days but to no avail. Apparently it is simpler to avoid or change the subject. ;)

    Hello Molly. Long time - no disagreement! :D
     
  9. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Jesus was worried? I am not sure where that emotion falls into this discussion but it is definitely different than experiencing fear.
     
  10. dianetavegia

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    The night of Jesus' betrayal he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. An angel was sent to strengthen him.

    To imply that the 'man' Jesus did not dread the pain and agony of Golgotha.... weakens the power of the cross, does it not?

    Many of you have used Jesus as an example in discussions on depression.... and now fear is always a sin?




    fear
    n.

    A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

    A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

    A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.

    Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power.

    A reason for dread or apprehension.


    Expecting a lively but lovely discussion here my friends! [​IMG]
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron
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    *sigh* One more time.

    You're asking, "What is the color of the sky?"

    We're saying, "It depends on the color of the lenses you're wearing."

    With the answers we've given, we've enabled any rational soul to provide an answer to the situations you think are so decisive. You, however, appear to be dull of hearing, and though you are in the office of a teacher, you need one to teach you again the first principles of the doctrines of Christ.
     
  12. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Of the time I have spent participating and lurking on BB, I am not sure I have ever seen you give a straight answer, so I shouldn't have expected one now either. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    If agreeing with you qualifies as being "taught", we all have a lot to learn (which in the end says more about you than those who disagree with you).
     
  13. TheOliveBranch

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    Apprehension. Not fear, nor worry. He knew what he was facing, and knew what agony he was to bear for the sack of all sinners. Aaron is correct in saying that we are polluted with sin and cannot really comprehend what it is to have anger, apprehension, and such without sin tied into it.

    Have you tried to set a trap? Aaron has entered Preach, well, apprehension? :D
     
  14. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    What is the basis for such apprehension? Is apprehension a natural non-sinful human emotion and fear is not?

    This is really not the point of the discussion. Because we cannot comprehend human nature w/o sin does not minimize or eliminate the human emotions Jesus experienced.

    The real question is can a person feel anger, apprehension, fear, etc. without sinning?

    Actually I have tried to get simple answers to simple questions, but that seems to be a difficult task for Aaron and PtW.
     
  15. TheOliveBranch

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    I decided to look at the thread on Lucado. I don't see where they didn't answer those questions. And to quite an extent. I now see why Preach hasn't come here to answer. Surprised Aaron did.
     
  16. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Much like you answered the questions above??? :rolleyes:

    Neither has answered the question that started this thread. Nor have they proven with scriptural support that fear is always a sin (with the exception of a fear of God).
     
  17. Molly

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    SBC,

    You just never quit,do you?

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. Daniel David

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    I am only going to post so SBC stops patting himself on the back for saying that I won't show. [​IMG] (Nothing offensive was meant by that. We go back a long ways.)

    I of course reject the idea that Jesus feared anything in the Garden. Here is what I do believe about the situation.

    This is from a NASB:

    1. Matthew 26:31 - Absolute knowledge of future events. He was not caught offguard. Fear (in the sense of being startled) did not exist because of his knowledge of all things.

    2. Matthew 26:32 - Confidence of future pain but also his resurrection. Again, no sign of fear.

    3. Matthew 26:38 - He expressed grief which is not fear.

    4. Matthew 26:39 - Unswerving obedience. Fear in obeying would be sin because it would imply that his obedience might have been grudgingly. Remember, the food of Christ is to do the Father's will.

    5. Matthew 26:46 - Fear. "Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!" Yeah, if ever there is a sign of fear, it is from a person who goes to the one trying to hunt him down.

    Now, this is just from Matthew's gospel. I have not read through the others to post. My son was just born, and I am not able to spend too long in a thread.
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    I look at the statement as pro forma one. Our Lord knew full well what lay ahead of Him and He knew it from before the foundation of the world. He asked the question knowing what the answer would be even before He asked it. In so doing, there is a definitive record that there was/is no alternative to His Death, Burial, and Resurrection for salvation.

    Kind of like a FAQ.
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Actually, it's refreshing to debate with a guy who isn't hypersensitive. I like SBC because I can take my gloves off. (I hope he feels the same way about me.)

    Don't get me wrong. He's wrong. Dead wrong and leading a congregation the wrong way, but I debate with him in hope that he will see truth and be set free. (I hope that's his goal with me.)
     

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