When The O.T. & N.T. Saints Were Saved

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hark, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. Hark

    Hark
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    The O.T. saints were in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise where the thief met Jesus that day. It was after His ascension that the O.T. saints are now in heaven where Paradise is now located.

    Okay. Here we go. I hope in the Lord that He will help me to share what He has taught me.

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    So while Jesus was in earth, the O.T. saints were not in Heaven. Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus, that Abraham's bosom was beneath the earth but not in hell, but across a great chasm from hell.

    We see confirmation in scripture in the O.T.

    1 Samuel 28: 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

    So now we know where Samuel and the O.T. saints were; in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise.

    So in one respect, you are correct what Jesus has done, but timing is everything as to when it was done for them in order for them to receive it.

    Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    So they have not received the promise yet due to their faith. Thus the O.T. had needed Christ just as much as any one of us now in bringing us to God, but not until that ransom was paid for their faith to be rewarded.

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient,

    Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    So Jesus met the thief that day in Paradise aka Abraham's bosom and then His resurrection.

    Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    So now after His ascension, Paradise is located in Heaven as He led the captivity captive to the Heaven above.

    2 Corinthians 12: 1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

    Of course, Paul was speaking of the apostle John for the book of Revelation, but that is where "paradise" is now located in the third heaven.

    So... once again, the disciples were not saved until that ransom was paid and Christ has ascended to send the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost and thus eternal life as well. The disciples were officially saved at Pentecost.

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
     
    #1 Hark, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Here is another passage that speaks of this truth:


    Hebrews 9:15

    King James Version (KJV)

    8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.



    Above we see the reason why Old Testament Saints did not go to Heaven...their sins had not yet been redeemed through Christ's Sacrifice. The contrast is between the earthly Tabernacle and the "Holiest of All," which we see later is speaking of Heaven itself. When the Covenant of Law was still active the way into Heaven was not yet made manifest.

    Here...

    11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.



    ...we see that (1) Christ is the Priest of a different Tabernacle not of this world nor made by human hands, (2) the Sacrifice is not that of animals but His Own, (3) that He entered into that Tabernacle with this Sacrifice, and (4) that it is at this time Eternal Redemption (which is contrasted with the temporal redemption provided through the sacrifices offered up by men) is obtained.

    Again, this is why Old Testament Saints did not enter into Heaven...their sins had not yet been redeemed.

    Here...

    23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.


    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:



    ...we are told that Christ did not enter into the earthly Tabernacle (which also excludes the Temple)...but into Heaven itself.

    One more to consider:


    Hebrews 10:19-20

    King James Version (KJV)

    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;



    ...I would suggest that the "Holiest" in view here is also a reference to Heaven, and that entrance is as Christ taught only through Christ, and specifically His Blood (Death).


    God bless.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    I would have thought they were in their graves, just like everybody else. :)
     

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