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When you vote, think on these things

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by bb_baptist, Oct 31, 2004.

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  1. Enoch

    Enoch New Member

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    Thank you for posting this thread!!! I must say Webmaster your posts have ROCKED the last few days!!!!!!! [​IMG] [​IMG] I have really enjoyed them, thanks!
     
    #21 Enoch, Oct 31, 2004
  2. Bethany

    Bethany New Member

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    George W. Bush, all the way!

    People, you are NEVER going to have a major party candidate that agrees with you 100% on the issues. You are NEVER going to have a candidate that agrees 100% with your Biblical world view. The president is not the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. He is the president of the US and has a duty and obligation to do his best for all the people. The question is what candidate can you agree with on most of the issues - who has proven himself to be most in accord with your values. If you value "right to choose", vote for Kerry. If you value "right to life", vote for Pres. Bush. If you value our nations security, vote for Pres. Bush. If you want a wishy-washy "leader" who will check with the United Nations before doing anything, vote for Kerry. If you want a man who repects our troops, and who is respected by them, vote for Pres. Bush. If you want a man who came home from VietNam and accused our troops of "atrocities" that never happened, vote for Kerry. It's really very simple.
     
    #22 Bethany, Oct 31, 2004
  3. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Vote your conscience, who most represents the Christian ideals? Is it Bush or is it Kerry?

    --------------------------------------------------

    My conscience tells me not to vote. I can not vote for any candidate, as the two major candidates are skull and bones members, along with world government agendas, etc., and the rest follow suit in other minor ways. I leave my vote to God and trust and pray HIS will be done. I cannot vote and maintain peace in my heart and mind towards God.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #23 michelle, Nov 1, 2004
  4. The Undiscovered Country

    The Undiscovered Country New Member

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    The problem I have with the questions set is that they seem to be narrow in their focus-important issues but stil narrow. Where, for example, are the questions about the candidates approaches to alleviating poverty which is every bit as much a biblical issue?
     
    #24 The Undiscovered Country, Nov 1, 2004
  5. Ricardo Davis

    Ricardo Davis New Member

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    What is missing here is the principle of "a fully informed electorate." If party preference is indeed secondary to issues of justice and morality, then I would have expected every Presidential candidate who is on the ballot in enough states to win profiled on iVoteValues.com -- especially if the candidate supports the values the site promotes. Why then are only Republicans and Democrats discussed on the site? Is the modern American "two party system" one of the Biblical values the site is referring to?

    I would recommend WBUR's "Vote By Issue Quiz" at http://www.votebyissue.org/wbur/ for a fully informed overview of all of the candidate's positions. In taking the quiz you learn about the candidates through their platforms, not their personalities. You will read the answers from the candidates for president on 20 major issues. Agree or disagree to create your own report card that reveals the candidates you chose.

    As some readers of this forum have noted, not much is said about candidate Michael Peroutka or the Constitution Party. The average Christian sitting in the pew doesn't know about Peroutka. The same can't be said for Dr. Land, Dr. James Dobson, and many other conservative Christian leaders who have been in the fight in Washington. Why do these leaders continue to keep their supporters "in the dark" regarding all the alternatives in the election? Why doesn't the iVoteValues.com compare Peroutka on the issues and include the Constitution Party platform in their platform comprison?

    The two above subjects are commonly interlinked. Indeed in 2000 Dr. Land and other leaders supported candidate Bush on the contention that he would make appointments of pro-life judges the Supreme Court. However, this year President Bush made it quite clear by his actions that this is not his intent. Mark Crutcher reports on the matter in his article "The Pennsylvania Treason":

    On October 30th the LancasterOnline.com news site reported "Bush steps into Senate race here to back Specter":

    I know that Dr. Grudem and the other signatories aren't primarily called as political watchdogs, but the Republican Party's actions in the Pennsylvania US Senate race are national news. I wonder what the esteemed doctors would say regarding these developments? Would you think it is ethical to chose a presidential candidate who would ensure the election of a senator who will head the Judiciary Committee that has a proven record of opposing pro-life judical appointments?


    But is it ethical to choose candidates who in addition to supporting the amendment also support same-sex civil unions? I looked to see if the IVoteValues.com web site spoke to the issue of civil unions and which candidates and which platforms supported civil unions. I found nothing. However, Michael Farris of the Home School Legal Defense Association addresses the ethical quandary of civil unions:

    Last week, President Bush reaffirmed his support for civil unions at the state level -- even opposing the current GOP platform on this issue. See http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/26/politics/campaign/26gay.html?pagewanted=print for the story.

    Would you think the ethical choice is to vote for a candidate who has repeatedly stated he would support same-sex civil unions?


    But is the ethical choice for a candidate who has decided to allow government funds to be spent experimenting with the embryonic stem cells already created?

    In 2001 I wrote "Who Will Stand for Life?" where I detailed how President Bush help perpetuate the embryonic stem cell mania:

    I wholeheatedly agree that when you cast your ballot for president, U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives and numerous state and local offices, think on the principles outlined in “The Bible speaks to several ethical issues in this election.” However, I would caution you not to cast your ballot until you are fully informed about all the candidates' stands on the issues on the principles. I would also exhort you to be like the Bereans who critically reviewed what the apostle Paul was preaching to verify that his message was indeed from God. Review every candidate's positions against their public record of actions.

    In closing, I would like to pose a question to Dr. Grudem and his co-signatories, to Dr. Land and the staff at IVoteValues.com, and to you my friends:

    If there can be no doubt that there are certain fundamental issues of morality and justice which must be primary when making our decisions at the ballot box, then do you think it is ethical to vote for a candidate that does not embrace the principles outlined above out of fear of what might happen if that candidate loses? Make sure to support your answer with Biblical examples or principles that apply to the question.
     
    #25 Ricardo Davis, Nov 1, 2004
  6. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3 New Member

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    Ricardo Davis, thank you for the link to the Vote by Issue Quiz http://www.votebyissue.org/wbur/

    It amazes me that so many professing Christians are supporting President Bush. Many of the same evangelical leaders supported Mel Gibson's blasphemous Passion movie. Don't let those high profile Christian leaders fool you. Bush is not committed to banning abortions and he thinks it's OK for states to legalize "homosexual marriage."

    It reminds me of 1 Kings 22:22 - "And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so."

    Read that whole chapter. I think most Christian leaders are deceived. Michael Peroutka is the only obvious choice for a well informed Christian. Let me challenge my brothers and sisters that are leaning toward Bush to take that quiz on the issues.

    By the way, check out king Jehoshaphat's policy on "homosexual marriage":

    1 Kings 22:46 And the remnant of the Sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

    Amen! What do you think "took out of the land" means? LOL! I don't think we can get that extreme but at least we should support policies that keep those perverts in the closet. Let them feel ashamed.

    Vote for Michael Peroutka and rest with a clear conscience.
     
    #26 Psalm145 3, Nov 1, 2004
  7. Singing Cop

    Singing Cop <img src=/5667.jpg>

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    In my oppinion a vote for Peroutka is a vote for "None of the above" Peroutka can not win in the election. Does this show a lack of faith on my part? I don't think so. There is a difference in being without faith and being just plain real....to refrain from using harsher words. Faith is a Biblical principal yes but so is common sense and stewardship. A christian who cast his vote for a candidate who WILL NOT win is not being a good steward.

    If I voted for Peroutka my own conscience would not rest easy until I went down to the alter and repented. [​IMG] Especially if J.K. won the election.
     
    #27 Singing Cop, Nov 1, 2004
  8. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Faith without works, as James reminds us, is dead.

    Bush has done practically nithing in four years for th eunborn and ABORTION IS NOT EVEN ON HIS AGENDA...CHECK IT OUT ON HIS WEBSITE[/I].

    He recently endorsed homosexual civil unions.

    He came out AGAINST Judge Roy Moore on the Ten Commandments case.

    He thinks, just like most Democrats, that the Federal government has responsibility for educating children.

    He has exploded the federal deficit, with WILD spending on social programs.

    He has made huge increases in the budget for planned parenthood and the National Endowment for the Arts.


    It's sad the Christians will help him cover up his evil deeds.
     
    #28 Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 1, 2004
  9. Reborn James

    Reborn James New Member

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    I disagree. Bush is the problem.

    He talks as a Christian, but does not act as one. His foreign policies that have resulted in the horrendous death and suffering we see in Iraq are not Christian. His economic policies that benefit the rich at the expense of the poor and needy in this country are not Christian.

    In our desire to reclaim the White House and restore honor, morality and God to the the country, we have been duped by a charlatan who has given lip service to our desires to achieve his political goals.

    Falwell, Robertson and the rest of us have been played for fools. The evidence of our error is right before our eyes, but we are too proud to admit it.
     
    #29 Reborn James, Nov 1, 2004
  10. Reborn James

    Reborn James New Member

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    Then you are voting as a Republican, not a Christian.
     
    #30 Reborn James, Nov 1, 2004
  11. Reborn James

    Reborn James New Member

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    I agree completely, Jim. I am tired of forsaking my principles for political expediency.

    If Bush loses, God will not abandon us during a Kerry presidency. In fact, the backlash may be great enough to sweep a true Christian into the Presidency.
     
    #31 Reborn James, Nov 1, 2004
  12. bb_baptist

    bb_baptist New Member

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    Three Focus on the Family executives — including founder and chairman Dr. James C. Dobson — have signed on to an open letter to the American people stressing the importance of relying on biblical values in selecting candidates on Election Day.

    In addition to Dobson, Focus President Don Hodel and Vice President of Church, Clergy and Medical Outreach H.B. London Jr. also signed the letter. In all, it is endorsed by more than 80 ministry leaders, pastors and Christian professors from across the United States.

    The text of the letter follows:

    The Bible speaks to several ethical issues in this election.

    Many Americans seek guidance from the Bible for important issues of life, while we recognize that many others do not. With thankfulness for the freedom of all Americans to believe whatever they think best regarding matters of religion and ethics, we offer this statement of our personal understanding of the teachings of the Bible for the thoughtful consideration of all who are interested in how the Bible might speak to ethical issues in the current election.

    1. Supreme Court justices: People don't often think of the appointment of Supreme Court Justices as an ethical issue, but it clearly is now because several decisions of the Supreme Court have imposed on our nation new policies on major ethical and religious questions.

    A small majority of our current Supreme Court, and lower courts that follow their example, have gone beyond their Constitutionally defined task of interpreting laws passed by Congress and state legislatures, and have in effect created new "laws" that have never been passed by any elected body. By this process they have imposed on us decrees that allow abortionists to murder unborn babies (contrary to Exodus 20:13 and Romans 13:9, "you shall not murder"), that protect pornographers who poison the minds of children and adults (contrary to Exodus 20:17, "You shall not covet ... your neighbor's wife; see also Matt. 5:28), that redefine marriage to include homosexual couples (thus giving governmental encouragement to actions that Romans 1:26-28 says are morally wrong), and that banish prayer, God's name and God's laws from public places (thus prohibiting free exercise of religion, and violating Romans 13:3 which says that government should be "not a terror to good conduct, but to bad"). In taking to itself the right to decree such policies, the Supreme Court has seriously distorted the system of "checks and balances" intended by the Constitution between the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government.

    It is unlikely that any elected body such as a city council, state legislature, or the U.S. Congress, would have decreed policies like those mentioned above, for such groups are accountable to the will of the people. Not so the Supreme Court, which is appointed for life. And democratically-elected members of Congress and state legislatures are helpless to change those Court-mandated policies unless the makeup of the Supreme Court is changed. We believe the ethical choice is for a President and for U. S. Senators committed to appointing judges who will follow the original intent of the Constitution and just interpret law and not make it, rather than for candidates who have often voted to block such judges in votes in the Senate.

    2. Defense against terrorists: A fundamental responsibility of government is to "punish those who do evil" (1 Pet. 2:14) and thus to protect its citizens. We now face a unique challenge, because terrorists who will sacrifice their own lives in killing others cannot be deterred by the usual threat of punishing a criminal after he commits a crime. While Jesus instructed individuals not to seek personal revenge but to turn the other cheek (Matt. 5:39), the Bible teaches that governments are responsible to "bear the sword" (Rom. 13:4) and thus to use force to oppose violent evil. We believe the ethical choice is for a candidate who will pursue terrorists and, when necessary, use force to stop them before they strike us, not for a candidate who only promises to respond if we are attacked again.

    3. Abortion: The Bible views the unborn child as a human person who should be protected, since David said to God, "You knitted me together in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13; see also Psalm 51:5; 139:13; Luke 1:44), and strong penalties were imposed for endangering or harming the life of an unborn child (Exod. 21:22-23). We believe the ethical choice is for candidates who believe government should give protection to the lives of unborn children, not ones who believe government should allow people to choose to murder their unborn children if they wish.

    4. Homosexual marriage: The Bible views marriage as between one man and one woman, for "a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh" (Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:31). Because our courts have shown a troubling tendency to overturn the laws that have already been passed concerning marriage, we believe the ethical choice is for candidates who support a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

    5. Embryonic stem cell research : Creating more human embryos for their stem cells is making the beginnings of little babies for the purpose of harvesting their parts, contrary to the command, "You shall not murder" (Exod. 20:13). There is a good alternative: using adult stem cells for medical research, because this does not destroy the life of the adult whose cells are used. We believe the ethical choice is for a candidate who has decided he will not allow government funds to be spent to create more human embryos just to take their stem cells.

    6. Natural resources: God put human beings on the earth to "subdue it" and to "have dominion" over the animals (Gen. 1:28). We value the beauty of the natural world which God created, and we believe that we are called to be responsible stewards who protect God's creation while we use it wisely and also seek to safeguard its usefulness for future generations. The Bible does not view "untouched nature" as the ideal state of the earth, but expects human beings to develop and use the earth's resources wisely for mankind's needs (Gen. 1:28; 2:15; 9:3; 1 Tim. 4:4). In fact, we believe that public policy based on the idealism of "untouched nature" hinders wise development of the earth's resources and thus contributes to famine, starvation, disease, and death among the poor. We believe the ethical choice is for candidates who will allow resources to be developed and used wisely, not for candidates indebted to environmental theories that oppose nearly all economic development in our nation and around the world.

    7. Should Christians speak out and try to influence our nation on these issues? God's people in the Bible often spoke about ethical issues to government rulers. Daniel told the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar to practice "righteousness" and to show "mercy to the oppressed" (Dan. 4:27); several Old Testament prophets speak to foreign nations about their sins (Isaiah 13-23; Ezekiel 25-32, Amos 1-2, Obadiah (to Edom), Jonah (to Nineveh), Nahum (to Nineveh), Habakkuk 2, Zephaniah 2); and Paul spoke to the Roman governor Felix "about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment" (Acts 24:25).

    As Christian leaders we agree that the primary message of the New Testament is the good news about salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. But the primary message is not the whole message, and another significant part of the New Testament teaches us how people should live. With respect to issues like these we have mentioned, the Bible also teaches us about what kinds of laws governments should have.

    The laws of a nation have a significant influence on the nation's moral climate, for good or for ill. This is because laws can either restrain evil or encourage it, and because laws also have a teaching function as they inform people about what a government thinks to be right and wrong conduct.

    Therefore we urge pastors and Bible study leaders to teach on these crucial ethical issues facing our nation. We urge all Christians that they have a moral obligation to learn about the candidates' positions, to be informed, and to vote. We urge all Christians to pray that truthful speech and right conduct on both sides would prevail in this election. We also encourage Christians to consider doing even more for the good of our nation, such as giving time or money, or talking to friends and neighbors, or even serving in office themselves. Such influence for good on the direction of our country is one important way of fulfilling Jesus' command, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:19).

    [The signatures below represent only the personal views of those signing and not the views of their churches or institutions, which are added for identification purposes only. Permission is hereby given to reproduce and circulate this statement]

    Pastors and Christian Leaders
    Dr. Daniel L. Akin, President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Randy Alcorn, Director, Eternal Perspective Ministries, Gresham, OR
    Kerby Anderson, National Director, Probe Ministries and host, Point of View radio, Dallas, TX
    Dr. Neil T. Anderson, Founder and President Emeritus, Freedom in Christ Ministries
    Jack and Kay Arthur, CEO and Founders, Precepts Ministries International
    Dr. Barry Asmus, Senior Economist, National Center for Policy Analysis, Dallas, TX
    Ted Baehr, Chairman, Christian Film & Television Commission, Camarillo, CA
    Dr. Mark Bailey, President, Dallas Theological Seminary
    Gary Bauer, President, American Values
    Joel Belz, Founder and Publisher, World Magazine
    Tal Brooke, President/Chairman, Spiritual Counterfeits Project Inc.
    Paul Cedar, Chairman, Mission America Coalition
    Dr. E. Ray Clendenen, Executive editor, Bibles and Reference Books, Broadman & Holman Publishers
    Rev. Eugene Clingman, Executive Administrator, International Church Council Project, Hathaway Pines, CA
    Dr. Darryl DelHousaye, President, Phoenix Seminary and Senior Pastor, Scottsdale Bible Church, Scottsdale, AZ
    Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Author, Host of Revive our Hearts radio
    Dr. Lane T. Dennis, President and Publisher, Good News Publishers/ Crossway Books and Bibles, Wheaton, IL
    Dr. James Dobson, Chairman, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
    Dr. Bert Downs, President, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
    Dr. Tom Elliff, Pastor, First Southern Baptist Church, Del City, Oklahoma, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
    Tom Fortson, President, Promise Keepers
    Dr. Joel Nederhood, Director of Ministries Emeritus, Back to God Hour, Christian Reformed Church
    Dr. Steve Farrar, Founder and Chairman, Men's Leadership Ministries, Frisco, TX
    Dr. Ronnie Floyd, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church - Springdale, AR and The Church at Pinnacle Hills - Rogers, AR
    Dr. Jack Hayford, Chancellor, The King's College and Seminary, Van Nuys, CA
    Dr. Jim Henry, Senior Pastor, First Baptist Church, Orlando, FL, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
    Dr. R. Kent Hughes, Senior Pastor, College Church in Wheaton, Wheaton, IL
    Susan Hunt, Author
    The Hon. Don Hodel, President, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
    Charles W. Jarvis, Chairman, USA Next-United Seniors Association
    Dr. David Jeremiah, Founder, Turning Point Radio and Television Ministries and Senior Pastor, Shadow Mountain Community Church, El Cajon, CA
    Dr. R. T. Kendall, Bible teacher, Author Dr. D.,br&gt;
    James Kennedy, Chancellor, Knox Theological Seminary, Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Dr. Tim Kimmel, Executive Director, Family Matters, Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Gary Kinnaman, Senior Minister, Word of Grace Church, Mesa, Arizona
    Bob Lepine, Co-Host, FamilyLife Today
    Dr. Robert Lewis, Pastor at Large, Fellowship Bible Church, Little Rock, AR
    Dr. Crawford W. Loritts, Jr., Author, Speaker, Radio Host, Atlanta, GA
    H.B. London Jr., Vice President, Church, Clergy & Medical Outreach; Focus on the Family
    Dr. James MacDonald, Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel, Rolling Meadows, IL
    Josh McDowell, President, Josh McDowell Ministries
    Len Munsil, President, Center for Arizona Policy
    Dr. Marvin Olasky, Editor-in-chief, World Magazine
    Rod Parsley, Founder, Center for Moral Clarity
    Dr. Paige Patterson, President, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX, and past president, Southern Baptist Convention
    Ron Prentice, Executive Director, California Family Council
    Dr. Dennis Rainey, President, FamilyLife, Little Rock, AR
    Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Kansas City, MO
    Alan E. Sears, President, Alliance Defense Fund, Scottsdale, AZ
    Jeff Schulte, Teaching Pastor, Fellowship Bible Church, Nashville, TN
    Dr. Joseph M. Stowell III, President, Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, IL
    Dr. Joseph Wasmond, President, Freedom in Christ Ministries, Knoxville, TN
    Dr. Stu Weber, Senior Pastor, Good Shepherd Community Church, Gresham, OR
    Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman, American Family Association

    Professors at Christian colleges and theological seminaries
    Dr. Gregg R. Allison, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY
    Dr. James A. Borland, Liberty University, Lynchburg, VA
    Dr. Gerry Breshears, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
    Dr. Harold O. J. Brown, Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte, NC
    Dr. L. Russ Bush, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Fred Chay, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Richard C. Chewning, Baylor University (Emeritus), and John Brown University, Siloam Springs, AR
    Dr. Jack Cottrell, Cincinnati Bible Seminary, Cincinnati, OH
    Dr. Kendell Easley, Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, Germantown, TN
    Dr. Wayne Grudem, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Howard G. Hendricks, Dallas Theological Seminary, Dallas, TX
    Dr. George W. Knight, III, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Taylors, SC
    Dr. J. Carl Laney, Western Seminary, Portland, OR
    Dr. David E. Lanier, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Steve Lemke, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, New Orleans, LA
    Dr. Daniel R. Heimbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Mark Daniel Liederbach, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Tom J. Nettles, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY
    Dr. Dorothy Kelley Patterson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX
    Dr. Alvin L. Reid, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC
    Dr. Leland Ryken, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL
    Dr. Wayne G. Strickland, Multnomah Bible College and Seminary, Portland, OR
    Dr. Steven R Tracy, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Bruce Ware, The Southern Baptist Seminary, Louisville, KY
    Dr. Paul Wegner, Phoenix Seminary, Scottsdale, AZ
    Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Deerfield, IL

    This is a partial list of signers. For a full, updated list, or to get a current electronic copy, visit the Arizona Policy Council Web site.

    http://www.family.org/cforum/extras/a0034053.cfm
     
    #32 bb_baptist, Nov 1, 2004
  13. Sumac

    Sumac New Member

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    It is important to remember that not all conservative Christians will be voting for Bush:</font>EDITED to remove links to sites with inappropiate content.

    [ November 01, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: webmaster ]
     
    #33 Sumac, Nov 1, 2004
  14. bb_baptist

    bb_baptist New Member

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    Sumac - all of those are anti-Bush articles. None of them are pro-Kerry. I'd really like to see a solid argument for why some Christians might think Kerry would be a better president than Bush. Complaining about some aspects of Bush's administation is not going to do it for me.
     
    #34 bb_baptist, Nov 1, 2004
  15. Sumac

    Sumac New Member

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    Webmaster -
    It was not my intention to promote Kerry or any other candidate. My purpose was to show that there are many reasons - both religious and secular - why Bush has failed as a President. I understand that this is a Baptist/Christian board and that you would like to keep the discussion in that context. I will respect your desire.

    Here are some alternative links that show Christian support for Kerry:
    </font>Unlike my previous post, the following is intended to promote a specific candidate [​IMG] : &lt;snipped per this posting - http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/18/1705.html? &gt;

    [ November 01, 2004, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
    #35 Sumac, Nov 1, 2004
  16. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    In Falwell and Robertson's case, it mught not have been playing. :D
     
    #36 Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 1, 2004
  17. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    AMEN to that!!!

    I think tomorrow we will vote Mr. Specter out of office, finally. Hopefully we will also vote Mr. Bush out. Then, Pennaylvanians will have to look to the future to vote Mr. Santorum out.
     
    #37 Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 1, 2004
  18. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    What are skull and bones members? Just curious. I've never heard of it. I'm like a mushroom.
     
    #38 Phillip, Nov 1, 2004
  19. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Kerry and Bush are both big-government, big-spending liberals. Kerry would be opposed by the GOP congress and by conservative Christians, while Bush is cheered on by the same to implement destructive policies. Therefore on that count, Kerry would be better.

    Same with education policy..."no child left alone" is the biggest power grab ever; Bush will be successful in expanding it, but Kerry would probably be stopped. So, Kerry gets it there, too.

    Same with health care. Bush's prescription drug scam dwarfs anything the Dems ever did. Remember "Hillary care"? It went nowhere. Bush has done much more damage than Hillary, and less than Kerry would be able to do.

    Bush's official agenda does not even include abortion. Kerry wouldn't be much worse there, and at least Christian conservatives don't worship him, and therefore might actually oppose him.

    How's that?
     
    #39 Pennsylvania Jim, Nov 1, 2004
  20. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    You can say whatever you like but we are not going to see a dramatic shift where everyone suddenly wakes up and sees the Constitution Party as the answer. We must shift the "center" to the right. If Bush wins and the GOP gains in the Senate, it will not be a victory for a position but rather for a trend and direction. It will give a place to voices like the CP.

    If Kerry wins, it will be used by the media and others to create a trend even further away from the Constitution Party. It will give a louder voice to the homosexual rights movement and other fringe elements favored by leftists.

    A vote for Peroutka, who is also not a perfect Christian candidate, is a foolishly cast half vote for Kerry.

    There are two basic competing worldviews in this election. Bush doesn't perfectly represent the right one. However, John Kerry does perfectly represent the wrong one.

    Vote your conscience. Mine tells me that I trust GWB more than Kerry to shape the SCOTUS for the next 20 to 30 years. Mine tells me that Peroutka won't win and Kerry won't replace Rehnquist with a pro-Constitution, pro-life judge.

    If you vote Peroutka, I hope you have a plan for gaining the 67% majorities you need in legislatures and the Senate to overcome the radical laws that will be created by 9 black robed monarchs.

    I hope you have considered that we are only one Supreme Court vote away from having every state constitutional amendment on gay marriage and partial birth abortion overturned by the SCOTUS.

    Finally, politicians and parties listen to those they are beholden to. If conservative evangelicals make the difference for Bush this year then everyone in the GOP will be forced to respect or at least fear us. If Kerry wins, we will be blamed for not showing up and will lose what influence we do have as the GOP seeks to find those elusive "middle, moderate" voters.
     
    #40 Scott J, Nov 1, 2004
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