Where are "the Arab Sakharovs and the Arab Ghandis".

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    read more here

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    They died with Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan.
     
  3. LadyEagle

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    Islam and Democracy are idealogical opposites.
     
  4. Bunyon

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    OR- "They died with Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan" LE- "Twenty-two Arab countries and not a single democracy"

    Those quotes are cogent!

    When you examine history, the only democracies that ever went anywhere are those that were formed around a Christian world view.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Including Israel?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Bunyon

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    Smart response Joseph! But I think Israel is an exception to almost every rule. They are God's chosen people, then and now, so they are an exception. Perhaps, I should have said Biblical world view. Yea, that is what I should have said. Keeping me on my toes! ;)
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Is Israel, in your view, a supremecist state (IOW, above all others)? Also, it would seem to me that since they reject half of the Bible, and are a secular democracy who rejects Jesus as the Messiah, that they do not have a Biblical World View.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. Bunyon

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    No not a supremecist state. But the race is unique in that they are God's choosen People. No other state can boast of that.

    In the sense you are speaking we are a secular democracy also. But our worldview has been Biblical since the founding fathers. Isreal is imbued with this Biblical world view in the same sense. Even if their Government insist on a secular view as our's increasingly does now. Historically the seeds of all successful democracies are found in God's word. Even if you are only operating on half the bood as the Jews are.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    What does it mean to be God's Chosen People? Does that mean that they are superior to other races?

    The closest I could say about Israel is that they are based upon a heretical pseudo-Biblical view which is unBiblical and anti-Christ since they reject the New Testament, Reject Christ, and they cling to the false doctrines of Kabballah. If I, as a person who claims Christianity, stated that I rejected the writings of Paul because they are sexist and irrelevant for our time, but accepted Jesus' writings because they are full of love and compassion (this is hypothetical and in no way a reflection of my true beliefs), you would rightly define me as a heretic who does not have a Biblical worldview and was full of the Spirit of AntiChrist. Why would we say any different about the secular state of Israel (or America, for that matter) when they reject the entire New Testament (or,in America's case, continue to ignore the law of God by sanctioning and funding abortions)?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Are you saying that Sadat and Hussein were the only reformers among Arabs? I am pretty sure that I could prove otherwise.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Islam and Democracy are idealogical opposites. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually,

    Traditional Conservativism along the lines of Buchannan and the CP and Democracy are ideological opposites.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Bunyon

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    No I don't think they are superior, just special.

    If they had not had a Biblical world view, you would not have the old or new testament. They have a lot of abberent beliefs in a lot of sects, but the same is true of Christianity. Yet they still have the old testament. They wrote it. I don't think the average Jew is into the Kabballah, do you? They have engaged in heresies all through there history, yet God says a mother can forget about the baby suckeling at her breast before He could forget about Isreal. He says he has written her name on his right hand. That puts them in an exceptional posisition. So it think we can say that different rules apply to there survival as a nation and democracy.
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    1. Do different rules also apply to their salvation?

    2. Did different rules apply to their survival as a nation and (oops...theocracy / monarchy) in the Old Testament each time they were carried off into exile?

    3. I have many Jewish friends who are deep into Kabballah. Do you have some statistics that say a majority of Jews are not?

    4. Jews, as a whole, may have had a Biblical world view when they wrote the Torah. They, however, rejected the prophecies of their own Torah and a Biblical world view when they rejected Christ. Old Testament Israel more or less had a Biblical worldview. Modern day Israel is as far from a Biblical world view as one can get.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    On the question of Kaballah, I found this on a Jewish Website:

    http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/faq.htm

    and this from Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah
     
  15. Bunyon

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    I don't have any stats that says that the average jew is not into Kaballah, but I doubt it. The average Jew is not conservative is he? Aren't the conservatives a minority? None the less they still have the Old Testament and it is still the center of their world view? That makes a difference in my estimation. I take it you do not see the modern state of Isreal as a prophetic fulfilment. And perhaps not as God's choosen people.

    I don't think different rules apply to their salvation, but it sure does to their survival as a nation. No other Nation has had its survival gauranteed by God in the Bible. Wouldn't you say that constitutes a special set of rules? What about the miracle of their reconstitution as a nation and their subsequent survival till this day? We see a different set of rules at play every day they remain in that Nation. What a miracle!
     
  16. OldRegular

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    The WERE God's chosen people, chosen for the purpose of bringing Jesus Christ into the world. They have fulfilled that purpose.
     
  17. Bunyon

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    So why has God gone through all the trouble of bringing them back to Isreal? Is it just a coincidence that they just happened to arrive back in Isreal just in time for the last days, for Jesus's return to the mt. of Olives? Is this just an incredable coincidence or is it something more sinister? Why did God perserve them as a distinct people through all their wonderings? Why dose He insist he can never forget them?
     

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