Where do babies go when they die?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Promise, May 2, 2002.

  1. Promise

    Promise
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    My pastor did a sermon on "where do babies go when they die" I was surprised to hear that their are people out there that believe that they go to Hell.

    What are you thoughts?

    [ May 03, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
     
  2. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    0
    12:23 But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Am I able to bring him back? I will go to him, but he cannot return to me!’” - 2 Samuel 12:23 NET

    David believed that his dead son was in the same places where he himself would go eventually. I'm pretty sure that David is with God now which would mean that is where his son went.
     
  3. MEE

    MEE
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/me3.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree 100%. This is one of the best examples that the Bible has to offer, as to what happens to one that is still unaccountable for sins.

    Good post!
     
  4. Mike G

    Mike G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is a link to an excellent article that deals with this subject. It was written by Dr. Al Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

    Do infants who die go to heaven?
     
  5. Promise

    Promise
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the article Mike, was very good...
     
  6. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well we are all born into sin. So why shouldn't babies go to hell? They are just as accountable for their sins as the next person.

    Now for children born to believers, I believe that faith has the chance to spark in them because they are exposed to the Word, while in the womb.
     
  7. TP

    TP
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Greetings,

    I found this very interesting:

    you said: Now for children born to believers, I believe that faith has the chance to spark in them because they are exposed to the Word, while in the womb.

    Response: You seem to have a very sacramental understanding of scripture. It seems to confer grace just as baptism does for an infant. The Bible, A SACRAMENT.

    I am curious as to what others have to say about this question, because if they say a baby is without sin(No original Sin), then they should have no problem with the Immaculate Conception, which says that mary was born without sin. But if they say the child is born with Sin, but cannot repent, that also leaves them in a dilemna

    peace
     
  8. panza1_99

    panza1_99
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2002
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  9. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Godmetal,

    My girlfriend has sentiments much like your own. Thankfully we have a Lord who is so much further beyond our own understanding, and while He is perfectly just, He is also a perfectly loving Father.

    Keep in mind that we are made dead by the knowledge of the law (remember that darn tree of the knowledge of good and evil?). Without the law, without the knowledge of good and evil, God does not hold us accountable to it.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  10. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    TP,

    Actually there is no paradox here. We are all born with a sin nature, except that of the man Jesus Christ. The difference is, when are we held accountable. Check out my previous post. Now I don't fully understand the doctrine that you are speaking of, but if I remember right it says that Mary is sinless. Then I guess Mary doesn't need a Savior if she has met God's requirements for heaven right?

    UNP
    Adam
     
  11. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Adam,

    Keep in mind that we are made dead by the knowledge of the law (remember that darn tree of the knowledge of good and evil?). Without the law, without the knowledge of good and evil, God does not hold us accountable to it.

    Um. Paul tells us in Romans 2:12-16 - "All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."

    The law is written on the heart for those without the letter.

    5:12-14 - "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned - sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

    The transgression of Adam was a blatant disobedience against the known law of God. Death reigns even over those who sin without knowledge of the law of God.

    God bless,

    Carson

    [ May 03, 2002, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  12. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then I guess Mary doesn't need a Savior if she has met God's requirements for heaven right?

    The teaching is that the grace of redemption was given to Mary at the moment of her conception. She was saved before she was conceived in sin. In this way, Christ's saving Mary was a greater work than his saving us.

    We're saved by being redeemed - made over in new creation by the grace of Christ. Christ did this completely for Mary before she fell. He elevated her in his grace from the moment of her conception and held her in that.

    Mary did not live apart from grace. This is not a part of the Immaculate Conception doctrine and a misrepresentation of it. If it were not for Christ applying his grace to Mary apart from the sacraments at the moment of her conception, then she would have inherited Adam's sin.

    Her salvation is different from ours mostly in that she was without concupiscence. Mary didn't have a darkened intellect, a weakened will, or disordered affections. Mary is more human than her contemporaries. Sin is an inhuman disease that Christ redeems us from. Mary was redeemed earlier in her life than you and I.

    I meet God's requirements for heaven insofar as the righteous decree of the law is fulfilled in me when I live not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit because I have faith in Christ (Rm 8:4). Living up to God's law is what Christ's Spirit allows us to do. We do this by faith, not on our own accord.

    2 Cor 5:21 - "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

    How do we get "in him"?

    Rom 6:4 - "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

    What is this "newness of life"?

    Rom 6:14 - "For sin is not to have any power over you, since you are not under the law but under grace"

    This "leads to righteousness" in v. 16, which is "God's righteousness" (2 Cor 5:21) that is given to us in baptism and manifested through the supernatural virtue of faith.

    God bless,

    Carson

    [ May 03, 2002, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  13. MEE

    MEE
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/me3.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  14. TP

    TP
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Greetings,

    You mention: babies can't be held accountable as they don't know who Jesus is. in other words, they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus as we do and can...

    Reply: This would imply that a muslim in africa who has never heard of Jesus cannot be accountable for their sins either. Because of history and geography and (Perhaps negligance on side of Christian missionaries) they have never heard the Gospel. Will the go to heaven because they cannot be held accountable because they don't know who JEsus is?

    peace
     
  15. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Prove it. Show me the verse that says an infant is not responsible. I bet you can't. I bet I can show you the verse where God holds infants responsible.

    Yes, I read mee's post and promptly ignored it because mee is just espousing the "age of accountability". Which is unbiblical nonsense and based on the faulty assumption that infants have no knowledge of that which is written on the hearts of men.

    [ May 03, 2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Godmetal ]
     
  16. MEE

    MEE
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/me3.jpg>

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Prove it. Show me the verse that says an infant is not responsible. I bet you can't. I bet I can show you the verse where God holds an infant responsible.

    Yes, I read mee's post and promptly ignored it because mee is just espousing the "age of
    accountability". Which is unbiblical nonsense and based on the faulty assumption that infants
    have no knowledge of that which is written on the
    hearts of men.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I still agree with 2 Sam. 12:23. Babies don't go to hell Godmetal! I don't consider that Biblical nonsense. [​IMG]

    Show us a scripture that says a baby will go to hell... that is without taking it out of context.

    MEE
     
  17. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi MEE,

    May I ask where you find this information? I have never read this in the KJV.


    It's a logical deduction from recognizing Mary as the New Eve, from the protoevangelium, from Gabriel's address, from many other OT types, and from the longstanding teaching of the Church that was refined by Blessed John Duns Scotus.

    For an in-depth explanation:

    http://www.newadvent.org/docs/pi09id.htm

    God bless,

    Carson
     
  18. Sir Ed

    Sir Ed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    0
    2 Samuel 12:23 is speaking of one particular child. There is nothing that allows for a fool-proof extrapolation of that one particular instance to all of mankind.

    The fact is that the article quoted just begs the question of whether there is an "age of accountability." The author was a Baptist writing for Baptists. He thus assumes in the article that there is. I, and the Church historically, don't believe in the "age of accountability" concept. Its just not in the Bible and wasn't discussed by early Christians.

    I don't know if unbaptized babies go to heaven or not if they die. I do know that God is a loving God. I hope and pray that they do go to heaven. However, that is God's decision, not mine. I can't take that decision away from God by creating some man-made concept of an "age of accountability.
     
  19. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly Sir Ed,

    You can't make the decision for any baby if it will go to heaven or not. You can't sprinkle water on its head and say, okay, we know that this baby is saved because the pastor baptized it. You cannot show me any Bible passage that says it works like that.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  20. Promise

    Promise
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is what I was taught about babies going to heaven...

    as In II Samuel when David's baby died, David said to the elders of the house
    chapter 12:23
    But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
    verse 24 says
    And David comforted Bathsheba his wife,....

    So do you think that David comforted his wife by letting her know that their son is in hell? Of course not he comforted her by letting her know that they would see their son again in heaven.

    We are all born with the nature of sin, that sin is from Adam...we cannot confess our sin from Adam because of what he did. When we get to an age of understanding the difference between right and wrong that is when we are accountable for our sins. It is our sins that we are accountable for, Not the sin of Adam, but OUR SIN.

    Romans Chapter 7:7-10 says:
    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet.
    But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

    Paul knew that he had not sinned (HIS OWN SIN) when he was without the law. But when he started sinning he knew that his soul had died and that the only way to have a living soul is by believing in Jesus Christ who died to take upon him our sins....not the sin of Adam, but of Our sins.

    I hope that opened some eyes.
     

Share This Page

Loading...