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Where do Catholics stand on the Second Coming?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Pastor_Bob, Apr 9, 2003.

  1. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    You judged 1 billion people in one sentence. Congrats.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  2. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Catholics "half-way accepting Calvinism"? That would be interesting.... [​IMG]
     
  3. postrib

    postrib New Member

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    I don't believe that the Bible anywhere says that Jesus can come to gather us together at any moment, but says the opposite (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, compare Matthew 24:29-31).

    In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, I believe Paul says that the apostasy and abomination of desolation must occur before the day Jesus comes to gather us together (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4), and that Jesus' coming (parousia) to gather us together must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8). We Christians must go through the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13).


    "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matthew 24:36-37).

    Note that here Jesus is referring to the same "coming of the Son of man" as when he says "immediately after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of man coming" (Matthew 24:29-30).

    Note that Jesus didn't say "no one will know the day" (future tense) of the 2nd coming but "no one knows the day" (present tense in translation, perfect tense in Greek).

    Note the exact correlation of the phrase and tense of "knoweth no man" in Matthew 24:36 and 1 Corinthians 2:11-12: "Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God." See also: "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth... and he will shew you things to come" (John 16:13).

    Jesus said his coming would be "as the days of Noah were" (Matthew 24:36-37). God told Noah when the flood would come before it came: "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights" (Genesis 7:4). He told him because: "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

    Note that Jesus comes on people at an hour they will not know only "if" they aren't watching: "IF therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Revelation 3:3). Paul said that if we watch for the 2nd coming it will not overtake us as a thief: "Yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night... But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief... let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch" (1 Thessalonians 5:2, 4, 6). Note that between the 6th and 7th vials, at the very end of the tribulation, Jesus is still exhorting us to keep watching for his coming: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth" (Revelation 16:15).

    Before the 2nd coming, at the abomination of desolation, I believe those of us alive and still watching will know that we'll have to wait 1,335 days until Jesus comes: "From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" (Daniel 12:11-12).


    I believe there will be a rapture. "Rapture" is from the Latin "rapiemur," which is how the old Latin translation of the Bible translated "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. But many Christians believe that they will be "caught up" all the way into heaven, and that this will happen before the tribulation, when the Bible doesn't promise us either of these things. It says that we Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), that we will be caught up into the clouds to meet Jesus as he descends at the 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), that this will happen "after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and that Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    http://geocities.com/postrib
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    A literal "rapture" is one of interpretativeness. No one should be required to believe in a literal rapture, and if any pastor is teaching such a thing as a matter of implied doctrine, they should be tarred and feathered. As for my church, we're about 2/3 1/3. 2/3 not belileving in a literal rapture, and 1/3 believing in such.
     
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