Where is paradise right now?

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It concerns me that you would judge my heart and my motives (Matt 7:1,2) for the asking "Paradise" question.

You recklessly throw around the term "ridiculous" (Matt 5:22) You have displayed very little humility, never admitting when you are wrong. You have highjacked this thread. You continue to display fleshly carnal hateful behaviour. I'm sorry I disagree with you. I'm sorry I believe you are you are wrong. It is not personal.

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Lacy, you made this obvious by your actions. You started this thread right after you were shown the truth about Paradise, which destroys your belief in this false doctrine of the saved being temporarily punished in Hell. I am not judging your motives. I am judging based upon your actions.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

So do you believe that paradise is now under the altar?

 

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That is prideful and presumptuous to believe that your point of view is the only possible one.
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God's truth is ABSOLUTE. There is a right interpreation, and then wrong ones. How can and does one tell? You must not only rightly divide the word of truth, but study to show yourself approved unto God. God desires us to know His truth, not be confused about it, and have various interpretations. This question and it's answer has been made obvious in the scriptures as God has told us, and you have also been shown this. Just because many others for centuries have disagreed on this matter, means absolutely nothing. As there are many obvious truths of God that men in the past, even until this day "wrestle" with and will continue to wrestle with and come to the wrong interpretations. If one just believed what God has said at face value, and not trying to prove their own interpreations or doctrines and teaching of men, then there would be nothing to wrestle with.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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I'd hate to see you try to be mean. My question is a question that many theologians have wrestled with and debated. Just because you never considered it a questionable thing doesn't mean nobody else has either. That is prideful and presumptuous to believe that your point of view is the only possible one.
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Lacy, I and all who are saved, have the best teacher in the world, who knows more than these theologians that have and continue to wrestle and debate the scriptures, and that is God himself through the Holy Spirit. I rely upon his teaching me, not upon what other men
"think" it says, or what "I" think it says. Men are not my teachers. God is through his word and the Holy Spirit of truth.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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If one just believed what Michelle has said at face value, and not trying to prove their own interpreations or doctrines and teaching of men, then there would be nothing to wrestle with.
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NO, rather, if one just believed the SCRIPTURES at face value, not trying to prove their own interpretations or doctrines and teaching of men, then there would be nothing to wrestle with. Scriptures define scriptures to which gives you the truth. Not debating with one another, what I think it is, or what this person thinks. It is from what God has said it is, and to what He teaches the individual through study. What saith the scriptures (ultimately God) Lacy, about Paradise?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Did his Holy Spirit "reveal" to you what was in my heart and my motives? If you believe it does it have to be true because the Holy spirit teaches you?

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Lacy, I am not a dumb person, although I am not intelligent either. But I do have eyes that can see, and what I witnessed with my own two eyes, is what you have done. ON the other thread, the truth about paradise from the scriptures was brought to your attention, which has destroyed this false doctrine that you believe in, and then you started immediately after, questioning paradise. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out just what you did and are doing.


Actions speak sometimes louder than anything, and show forth what is in the heart. You have done this. I am not gifted with ESP, or the ability to know what is in your heart, but only by your actions, can one clearly see it. It is called observation of the facts, and I have called you on it. Why are you not being honest with us, nor yourself?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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I never said a disobedient Christian goes to Paradise, I said (Like the scripture says) HELL! All I did is challenge your traditional "Hal Lindsay" viewpoint.

It is called your interpretation of my motives, and you have judgeed me on it.

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Lacy, you have yet to show anything from the scriptures that a saved person will go to Hell. You do not even understand what Hell is, even when you have been clearly shown with the scriptures. Secondly, I do not know what Hal Lindsey thinks about this, and I do not care. What I know about this is from what the scriptures declare and demand, and from what the Holy Spirit of God has taught me through my study of it.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I only apologize for things I have wrongly done. I have not in this case. I am sorry that you cannot take the truth and rather sulk in it, and throw the attention off to the person who has observed this and called you on it. You have yet to even answer your own question scripturally. Where is paradise Lacy? What saith the scriptures? Why is it then, you asked this question?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, I don't know where this thread got onto this track. I do know Lacy and his doctrine and I can assure you that this is not some kind of attempt to trick someone into thinking that a christian can go to hell. It seems to me that there was an honest question brought up in another thread about the location of paradise, and Lacy desired to persue it.

 

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James quoted:

Michelle, I don't know where this thread got onto this track. I do know Lacy and his doctrine and I can assure you that this is not some kind of attempt to trick someone into thinking that a christian can go to hell. It seems to me that there was an honest question brought up in another thread about the location of paradise, and Lacy desired to persue it.
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This is what Lacy said, and to which shows his motivation for starting this thread. I am not wrong about what I have said. Here is what Lacy said, which is quite revealing:


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Lacy quoted:

I think we should challenge the popular notion of "die and go to Heaven/die an go to hell", just to see if it bears scrutiny. Do the saved dead still wait for the ressurrection in Paradise? Could it be that all the dead still reside in the underworld?
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Then, he has not even made one attempt to show what he is "challenging" even in the face of scriptures that contradict his challenge.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

The garden of Eden was prepared on earth prior to the fall for Adam, and then after the fall he was taken out of it and to where Satan also was who decieved Eve:

Genesis 2

8. And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10. And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11. The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12. And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13. And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14. And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15. And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Genesis 3

17. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18. Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20. And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21. Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23. Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


Here also is a link about paradise:

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct19.htm


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I don't know, Lacy, I suppose that the trees of Eden in hell there could easily be the same garden that Adam was in before he fell... If He can raise paradise out of the earth, it should be no surprise if He put it there after it was created elsewhere. Perhaps that is the case exactly.

 

Michelle says;
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Just because many others for centuries have disagreed on this matter, means absolutely nothing. As there are many obvious truths of God that men in the past, even until this day "wrestle" with and will continue to wrestle with and come to the wrong interpretations. If one just believed what God has said at face value, and not trying to prove their own interpreations or doctrines and teaching of men, then there would be nothing to wrestle with.
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This portion of her comments reminds me of the rants another person frequently makes to assert his position. His attitude as well as Michelle's are quite similar. Does the name Peter S. Ruckman come to mind? There is no reaching such folks. Although Michelle is KJVO, and Doc Ruckman is, and I am also; I prefer to distant myself from such attitudes. OTOH Lacy has shown he is of a humble spirit. I try to be also.
I would hope that other folks observing these things would not lump us all togethter. There are wackos out there.(in every camp)

As to the topic;
I have always been taught that Paradise is that which was carried into heaven when Christ ascended, at which time "hell hath enlarged herself" to make room for the many more millions of unsaved dead. This thread has caused me to re-think this position.
I'll get back to you on what I find.
In His service;
Jim

 

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I would hope that other folks observing these things would not lump us all togethter. There are wackos out there.(in every camp)
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I have posted scripture, from which my belief in this issue comes from, and you call me a "wacko"? I am a wacko for believing the plain truth of the scriptures? Look in the mirror first brother. Also please read this:


2 Peter 3

1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle