Featured Where is Spirit Baptism in the Bible?

One thing's for sure, you're so consistent, it's scary. You rip John Calvin's comments outta context as easily as you do God's word....

 

Please explain Mr. convicted.
His commentary is part of my software program. I treat Mr. Calvin's commentary the same way I treat any other person's commentary.
I go to the book, chapter, and verse. Select the commentary that I want to read, and viola! There it is. There is no taking it out of context. There it is--his commentary on those two verses. What more context do you want.

Are you really serious? Did you want me to post the entire chapter here?
Is that the context you want? Tell me what context you want?
The truth is that you don't believe in the depravity of man!
This is one of the cardinal doctrines of Calvinism and here is a passage of Scripture where Calvin explains it well for he believes Paul is giving his testimony as a believer and describes him as a believer with a carnal nature.
But you don't believe that, and won't accept it, not even from Calvin himself. So what kind of Calvinist are you??

 

[B

It looks to me like Calvin has refuted you from the grave.

No thought of a carnal Christian here.....no just an obedient Christian thanking God for enabling him to oppose and mortify sin, and ultimately to provide deliverance at glorification....

 

NOOOOO!!! I don't need any more of your misapplication of John Calvin's work. You've already done enough damage.

 

I don't need to say anything....Brother Iconoclast had burned the shirt off of your back already.....

 

we want you to read it before you mis-represent what he said about the chapter..

he and all the rest of the Cals do...the truth is...YOU do not understand it, as you do not understand the related doctrines...

He is one who studies the scriptures and seeks truth....you continue to blend the terms together to obscure truth.....you blend old man, flesh , nature, all together were many examine the language as given in context.

 

DHK

maybe in your mind this is going on...but not here in the threads

of course you are not doing that...if I was getting beat like a drum I would be reluctant at first also...

We might have noticed that already, that is why we say you have an agenda, but the real question is why?

I do not think you can sustain any scriptural case, so when you attack us , and call us names, twist words, take out of context....why not use that energy to take a fresh look at those teachers who you reject and despise on a regular basis.:wavey:

and yet...you have failed in your quest.

 

Actually I didn't see that post.
I am trying to get through it but it is difficult. Just a suggestion (more for Icon than for you), but if he would put Calvin's quotes "in quotes" the post would be easier to read and respond to. Sometimes I can't differentiate between who or what is being said by who.

 

Sorry...I will work on that...I am a bit burnt out and will be looking closely at the inside of my eyelids soon.

DHK....I give you credit in that you own your opinions and take a stand, although I do not like your M.O.

recently however in your zeal to oppose these ideas, I believe you are drifting from sound doctrine. Even those who consider themselves sworn enemies of what they believe is the teaching of Calvinism, secretly embrace much of the teaching and certainly when they pray, they pray as a cal does much of the time.

When you go public opposing certain teaching it is hard to pause and say...why am I fighting against God being in absolute control of this universe?

 

You left out this statement of Calvin's:
by the captive bonds of which he was held. The pronoun
as you continue on:

The depravity of man extends to the believer. This is very evident.

You never answered this before Icon. How can an unsaved person thank God; thank the Lord Jesus Christ? This is the "saved, regenerated Paul" giving his testimony, for only a saved individual could thank God in this way.

No, Icon, Calvin refuted you. The believer retains the old nature. It is not eradicated. And Calvin agrees with that.

 

.

I have never denied this, that is my position.

This whole discussion started with the OLD MAN.....being crucified....not the Old nature. it was you who mixed the two terms...

I have answered and commented on all these things DHK....despite your claims that I did not.

Why say such things when those who read can go back and see what was answered and how?
They will see that I have answered you and you just do not like the answers.

 

No response gentlemen? Especially to the bold red paragraph that directly addresses your position?

 

No comment Gentleman? How can you admit to, and define spiritual death as spiritual separation and not equally admit that the reverse must be "spiritual union" and thus "spiritual life"? Is not "union" the opposite to "separation"? Is not "death" opposite to "life"? Is not the problem "spiritual"? Spiritual life/light is being brought back in "union" spiritually with God is it not? How can you deny that "quicken" means to "make alive" and it is referring to the "spirit'' of man. How can you deny that this quickening is also a creative act by God that produces spiritual union with Christ in Ephesians 2:10 "created IN CHRIST" (Eph. 2:1,5,10)??????? These are so elementary principles, so basic, and yet your whole position attributes spiritual union to something other than being quickened as a creative act of God by which we are "CREATED in Christ"????

 

First the expression "old nature" is not found in scripture. Second, it is a theologically expression for the "old man" or "the flesh" and thus it is synomymous. Third, the absolute proof it is synomous is that the "old man" is directly associated with the works/fruits of "the flesh" or the unregenerated man. Fourth, your whole person has not been regenerated has it? Hence, you have remnants of the "old man" still abiding in your unregenerated aspects and the fruits prove it.

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

However, what we "should not" do is not what we always do. Our whole person has not been regenerated, the old man has not been fully eradicated from our person but we have the law of sin abiding, dwelling within us that inclines and overpowers us to sin ("but sin that dwelleth in me.").

If "our old man" is complete eradicated then why even waste the time as Paul does to go right on in Romans 6:7-11 to exhort and command them not to "let" that very thing rule over them, to resist it???? Your position makes no practical sense and renders his exhortations and imperative commands meaningless.


Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Note "the deceitful lusts" and "former conversation" of the Old man they are commanded (imperative mode) to put off. Why command something not possible to saints to do???? That is the absurdity of your interpretation of the Aorist tense, when in fact, it simply shows that obedience to the imperative mode can be done instantly.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;


The regenerated aspect of human nature has totally eradicated the "old man with his deeds." Legally and positionally the old man has been eradicated. However, it should be obvious that your whole person has not been regenerated and therefore the unregenerated aspects are still remnants of "the old man" where the "law of sin" dwells and operates and which must be "put off" and the new regenerated inward man must be "put on." It should be obvious that the "law of sin" does not "dwell" in your regenerated spirit but dwells in your still unregenerated remenants of the "old man" or "my flesh....this body of death.....my members" which is still something the regenerated man must present tense "mortify" (Rom. 8:12-13).

 

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15 ¶ And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 2:1¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.



Note the baptism in the Spirit is not UNIVERSAL but has contextual limits:

1. Limited time - "not many days hence"

2. Limited location - "should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait" "all...in one place"

3. Limited kind of believers - "these....which have companied with us all the time from the baptism of John.....to...."

4. Limited number - "all about one hundred and twenty"

There were over 500 brethren who at one event witnessed the ascension of Christ (1 Cor. 15). There had to be hundreds more who had been baptized by John and the disicples of Jesus (Jn. 4:1-2; Lk. 7:29-30). This baptism was restricted to Jerusalem and to one place in Jerusalem (Acts 1:4; 2:1). It was restricted to only 120 believers and thus was not universal or co-extensive with all existing believers inside and outside Jerusalem. Hence, it cannot possibly be coextensive with salvation or personal indwelling (Rom. 8:8-9).

 

B....I agree with most of what you have posted until these last two weeks....I tried to say that earlier in the threads..

Originally Posted by The Biblicist View Post

All Christians struggle with sin that comes from the pull of sinful inclinations of the flesh, the remaining corruption of living in this body of flesh.


15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

No...the old man used to delight in the deeds of the body and chase after them, he lived "in the Flesh".

Now In Christ....the old man has been put off...past tense...having put off the old man....The one new man now mortifies remaining sin and corruption.

There is not two men in one person. {he is not a spiritual schizophrenic.}

of course not...Paul; explains that because what God has done in us, we cannot live as we once did......We are to reckon the change as completed in times past,and now live in light of who we are In Christ....called to Holiness of life....not to fleshly ,carnal living as a habit and lifestyle.

It looks like only one poster tries to do this...saying the old man is still alive.

agreed
1 Cor. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

the glorified body has not been put on...but the new man has been put on.

correct...but you might need to look at some of DHK's past posts.

yes...mortification of sin

correct..two kinds of persons Spiritual or carnal...no mix or in between person as some suggest.

exactly

You are mistaken in this...the command is to live as who you are...having put off.....having put on....live accordingly.

it is your misunderstanding of this teaching that makes you go off big time.
I stated that earlier on and it has been shown to be true.

These Seven things are irrefutable IF common sense and sound exegetical principles of interpretation are abided by. The lesson in Romans 7:14-25 is that the saved man does not have the will POWER (v. 18 "to will is present, but HOW to perform I find not") to win this inner conflict with indwelling law of sin. The lesson in Romans 8:9-27 is that this power comes from dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Spirit of God - therefore if we "live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25 or "As ye have received the Lord Jesus Christ, so walk ye in him." - Col. 2:6.

this is highly unlikely that this is the case...if they live like that, they are most likely unsaved church members headed to hell.

for a Christian it is already done...they can obey or disobey.....the old man has been put off...they live as new men now.
Obedient, or disobedient

 

Jn. 7:37 ¶ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 7:37 is directed toward the unbeliever, to come to him and partake of the Spirit, whereas, John 7:38-39 is addressed only to those who have already believed on him.

John 7:37 is about the ENTRANCE of, or partaking of the Spirit, whereas John 6:38-39 is about the EXIT of the Spirit "out of" already believers.