Where is the Compassion?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by poetrob68, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. poetrob68

    poetrob68
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    I have a rather odd question.
    Where is the Compassion in the Baptist Churches?

    Allow me to explain.

    I've had this personal situation in my life.
    A situation which has proven to rise up and
    destroy any chance I might have at getting involved in any part of church. Other than
    Sunday School and services.

    Whenever this situation came to light, I was
    met with an assortment of responses none of
    which it is clear their source. I found these
    responses especially when I asked for advise
    or prayer or support.

    Just to name a few responses,

    " It is all your fault"
    " You are living in sin"
    " It is not the place of the church to get involved"
    " You are making a pest of yourself"
    " Church is not the place to bring up problems"
    " You are not really Saved"

    I could go on and on. I have to ask where responses like these come from. I don't
    see any compassion in them. Lately I have
    been reluctant to mention my troubles in my
    new church. Church number 12.

    I ask again, Where is the compassion?

    By His own example, Jesus went out of his way
    to help those in need. A woman caught in adultery, a woman at a well, eating with sinners,
    and even showing compassion to a thief on a cross.

    My point is, what happened? When a fellow brother
    or sister in Christ is in need and our response
    is like those examples above, what does it say
    about our churches?

    This is harsh but it says we have abandoned the
    basics of our faith. A faith that is built on
    sharing Christ with the world. A faith that teaches us to love each other. Pray for each
    other. Encourage each other.

    What if Jesus had told that thief it is too late?
    Or that woman caught in adultery? Or that woman
    at the well? Or refused to associate with sinners?

    Jesus would have ended up not going to the cross
    at all. Or He would have just to obey His Father
    and not to set us free.

    Why can't we show compassion towards people who
    are in our own fold? Is it a sin to face trials
    or heartaches?

    Where is the compassion?
     
  2. Kent Witcher

    Kent Witcher
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    I would just like to point out a few things about the instances you talk about.

    1. It is true that Jesus ate with publicans and sinners but he called them to repentence. He did not befriend sinners. People accused him of being a friend of sinners and publicans but as it is made quite plain in Matthew 11 that this was a false claim against Jesue.

    2.As for the woman taken in adultry Jesus did not excuse her sin he told her to go and sin no more.

    3.The woman at the well. Jesus confronted her openly about her sin in that she had had five husbands and was now shacked up with a guy and then he told that her religion was false and that she didn't know what she was worshipping and that salvation was of the Jews not what she was practicing. He told her that God must be worshipped in spirit and in TRUTH. And then he told her that she needed to believe on him for salvation.

    4. True enough that Jesus showed love toward the thief on the cross because the thief was born again but the thief also understood that "we receive the due reward of our deeds"


    So you see compassion does not mean that God's people especially in the capacity of the local church do not condemn sin or sinners for that matter because both are condemnable.

    We ought to look to ourselves first for fault. "First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    After that then we can pass righteouss judgement.

    I don't know your situation but if you're in your 12 th different church something definitely isn't right.

    Maybe perhaps you're seeking something from the church that's either not there or really not the church's place. Or maybe the churches have been right all along. I don't know I'm only sugguesting here.

    And if we truly love one another we will "look everyone to the affairs of another" and "the wounds of a friend are faithful but the kisses of an enemy are decietful."

    My only point in this post is for you to see that as Christians we're not supposed to go around with an everythings ok attitude because it obviously isn't.

    We are to be bearers of the truth especially to one another even if it's painful.
     
  3. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    It seems to me that compassion is the ability to speak truth in love. Compassion confronts sin. Compassion does everything it can to keep one's life pure before God, and thus the church to be compassionate should do everything in its power to keep her members pure and blameless before God.

    Should the church be compassionate to its members? Of course!! Are there churches that are not showing compassion? Of course!! But that does not mean we adopt an attitude of "it will be ok, you will get them next time" mentality. But in compassion we must confront sin and seek to do all we can to love God with all our heart, mind and soul.

    I think if you have been through 12 churches that the problem might not be with the churches, but the problem may be inside of you. Too often we get in the mindset that the problem is always someone else's fault.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Furthermore,

    Allow me to also point out that you did not really tell us much about your part in the situation. All we know about is the "Evil, uncaring, uncompassionate" Baptists churches you have left. It is real easy to accuse them without us knowing the whole story and then go on and moralize about what a victim you are. What is your part in this situation? What responsibility do you have for the situation? Any at all? What is this sin that has made you so shunned in all 12 of these Baptist Churches? Have you repented of this sin? Do you even consider it a sin? I think a little more information would be in order unless your intention is to gossip about these churches and make people feel sorry for you because you are such a victim. If this is true, I would ask you, where is the victory in Jesus that should be in your life? And why are you allowing yourself to become a victim?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    This 'situation' must be extremely serious for 12 churches to take such a strong stance. I agree, that without more information, we would only be judging the churches and/ or you.

    Diane
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
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    I think that sometimes church people go out of their way too much and sometimes not enough.

    Each situation has to be taken on its own. At one church I pastored there was a man who was offering to do work for people and then took their money and ran. Because they were church people they were generous and wanted to help. I knew that man and wouldn't have helped him except with a big kick. (Not too far away was a temporary service that hired people for a day). This became such a problem, so one Sunday I announced to the people that they should not help people personally unless they knew them well. If they wanted to help someone they should give their money through the church. The witness of the church is greater than one individual. My wife and I attended a church in college and we were convinced that should anything happen to us they would help us. We saw that so many times. At the chruch where I did my field education there was a lady whose husband was dying. Many people in that church helped her to take care of her husband until he died. Then after his death they paid for her to go to college and get a nursing degree. They even helped to take care of her children and helped to meet her financial needs while she was in school.

    The first church I pastored gave my wife and I 600 dollars on pastor appreciation day. That was a lot for that church. There were only 20 people at that time. The next church I pastored gave us 300 dollars for pastor appreciation day. That church grew from 90 to about 220. But they wanted to keep the increase in money for a rainy day. Well God took most of their money away in a foolish investment. I told the deacons it was foolish and they went against me anyway. The church has not gained one person since. In fact it has lost some. The first church I pastored has now bought 20 acres or prime land and is building its first building. It has a great attitude and is continuing to grow. The second church has some serious problems and is doing nothing.

    God always blesses the giver. I believe that when a church seeks to give itself away God blesses with more blessing. Our life should be one big testimony of giving. We give our lives to others so that others might know God better. We give our money so that the church will have the resources to do the work better.

    Four years ago a new church started and my sister and her husband decided to start going to that church. They gave their lives to Christ shortly thereafter. That church has now planted six additional churches all within the past four years. When you walk into that church there is an enthusiam and genuineness that is contagious. The pastor preaches the stuff. People are growing. They have a boldness I seldom see. That church is in a town of about 20-25,000 people. The church now has about 800 in attendance just at the first location. Most of the people have been Christians just a short time.

    What you said kind of reminds me of the man who walked into a church looking for friends and found none. But when he decided to be a friend he found them all over.

    Years ago I remember complaining about the church we were atending. We decided to stop complaining and start doing something. So we began to pray for God to giveme some people to meet with so I could help them grow. God put on my heart one man. So I invited him over for lunch after church and talked with him. Litle did I know that his mom had been praying for him. After we talked with him about what I wanted to do he told me he would like to do that. He also tod me that he had some other friends and asked if they could come. He had two other friends looking fot the same thing. That made three that I met with each week. After I met with them for about one year one of the men was asked by the chruch to start leading the youth. He began to do a similar thing with others in the youth. Eventually he started attending a Christian school and went into acting as a Chrsitan actor for a Christian company. After that we helped to start a chruch and is now the worship leader in that church. One of the other men went on to do evangelism and travel as an evangelist to other countries.

    We can spend our time looking at the faults and I have so many and so do others. If I looked at my faults I would be so crippled. But it is when I focus on Christ that I am enabled. It may be hard at times but we are to focus our eyes on Christ the author and perfecter of our faith.

    Paul thanked God for his weaknesses. We must too. The riches in Christ are so infinite and eternal.
     
  7. poetrob68

    poetrob68
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    Well, if approaching a church singles minister
    and asking if I can talk to him is wrong, I am
    guilty. If at prayer time I bring up things in
    my life, This I am also guilty of.

    Nevermind!!!!!!!!

    Whoever runs this site, I want my account
    deleted imediately.

    Sorry I ever joined in the first place.

    Good luck in your nice pretty lives.
     
  8. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    I am sorry, but there is more to this than that. A person does not go through 12 churches because of that. But I think the last response has shown us more than your words could ever.
     
  9. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie
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    With all due respect, Robert, I totally disagree with your assessment of this board. You will find the most compassionate and caring people here you will find on any internet Christian board. I know because I have actively participated in 2 other internet Christian boards.

    You have been a member here since last Thursday. You have posted in many of the various forums, and you have shared many of your problems. On one forum, you shared your testimony of the serious codependency problem you have with your mother. Each time you have posted, people have responded with the utmost concern and willingness to pray for you.

    You now are blaming the church and wondering where the compassion is? Would you know "compassion" if you saw it? Robert, if you have been to 12 churches, the problem is NOT with the church. The problem is within YOURSELF, and you need to face it and try to deal with it. If I recall, along with offering to pray for you, someone even suggested you seek professional help.

    So, do NOT think we don't care. We do, but you seem to want to talk about your problems more than you want to get help for them. And you are looking to blame anyone and anything for the problems you have rather than honestly deal with them. I do sincerely pray that some day, you will be able to find the help you need, but please don't accuse us of not caring about you.

    In Christ,
    CJ
     
  10. donnA

    donnA
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    ok, for one, we certainly can not jump on the condemn Baptist churches band wagon with you without knowing what this that has risen in your life. As in did you do something, or was something done to you. From some of the church responses it sounds like you have done something. If you have repented, and made the situation right, then they should accept that, it is not their place to condemn you. Something's you do in life will have lasting conquests, maybe for the rest of your life. You will just have to live with something's, believe me, my family has experience in that. We were never looked down on, and never turned away. We were loved and cared for. But we never made pests of ourselves either, thinking we should be the focus of everyone and all their symphony. Certainly not. By some of your statements it make me think this might be part of it. If you've had to go to 12 churches you can not place all the blame on the churches, apparently you have some part in this, and you must take responsibility for your actions. I can not believe 12 churches have all done all these things you bring up.
    What can be so bad that you can never be involved in church again, my son is certainly not experienceing this, and believe me, his was bad enough for prison. You say you were met with a variety of responses, well, all in all, people are just people, prephaps you net was their shock at what had happened, prephaps they did not know what to do, how to handle the situation, you could call it being stunned.
    I am not sure what to say without knowing what they were faced with when they said these things. I will agree that ”church is not the place to bring up problems” might be the wrong thing to say, unless you brought it up during a service, rather then in a small group like Su. School. Or you repeatedly brought it up. It might better have been handled in private, like with the pastor or a deacon.
    Saying you are unsaved might be a bit much also.
    You ask what does it say about our churches, what our experience says about my church is that we are loved, that God loves, and loves us through His people, that God strengthened us with His people. What we experienced was God’s people acting like Christ’s church should. i am sorry that for some reason you have not found this. But I ask you to more closely examine the situation, and your part of it, and examine any blame you may have, repent for sure, let people know you have repented and are at work to set things right in your life as much as is in your control. Apologize for any problems or embarrassment you have caused God’s church and individuals.
    And by all means mean it in your heart.
    One last thing, I see in you bitterness and blame, prephaps because the church will not side with you in whatever you may have done, examine your heart and make sure of what you are feeling and that your emotions are in their proper place.
    Before anything else, seek God in prayer. ask Him to let you know your own heart, what is there He wants gone, then strengthen you to start making your changes.
    From what you’ve said I can see your are not innocent in whatever has risen in your life and caused you so much trouble. you’ll have to face this. The real question is how are you going to do it, with God in a godly manner, or in bitterness that causes damage to your own heart and your relationship with God. thats your question to answer for yourself.
    I hope you'll read this with an open heart and an open mind. i ahven't said anything meant to be hurtful, but giving a little advice based on experience.
     
  11. donnA

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    I had hoped he would come back and make comment. So I'm bumping this up.
     

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