Where is "worship" one of the purposes of the assembly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You need to get your story straight DHK, and quit changing all the time.

I have been very consistent. You haven't answered my posts or questions. You go around in circles. You do it here again

I answered every thing you put forth. You are in deep DHK!

Quote:
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Of course you realize that this is not the passage that I quoted. You are reluctant to answer it. Why?
The 24 elders both worshiped and gave thanks. Now that is not difficult is it. No only did they give thanks they went on to give Him more praise and worship. The speak more of His power and His sovereignty. They praise Him for the attributes that God alone has. Learn what worship is.

Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, is how they worshipped. Man you sure are in deep.

Quote:
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

You own words trip you up DHK;

Strictly speaking this has nothing to do with worship.
Learn what worship is.


__________________
DHK

How on earth can you say that if you do something in the "name of the Lord" is not worship of Him.

Deep man deep!!!

I am going to take a nap and give you a chance to rebound and recooperate. Try to come up with something new this time, will you?.........

BBob,

 

There is nothing new under the sun.
Over and over you demonstrate to me that you do not understand what worship is.
Read the hymn I posted: "O Worship the King." Perhaps that will give you an understanding of worship.
Worshiip is giving God the worth that is due only to Him--praise and adoration that God alone deserves.
Once you understand that, you will understand how the many examples you have given are far off base.
Please, learn what worship is.

 

Brother would you mind addressing my post on this issue?

 

Very true. Our churches are caught up in the world--the world's culture and the world's philosophy and the world's way of doing things. We are competitve; unfortunately we are competitve with the world. Many think that we have to compete with Hollywood in order to keep the attention of the congregation.

The truth is the attention of the congregation will be fixed when the preacher has spent time travailing in prayer, and is able to bring forth the Word of God in the power of the Holy Spirit.
When persecution fell upon the early church, it was the common members of the church that went everywhere preaching the Word. The apostles remained in Jerusalem. (Acts 8:1,2). We all have a responsibility to make sure our lives are "in tune" with the Lord, and ready "to give an answer to every man that asks of the hope that is in us with meekness and fear."

 

You have a very hard head my friend, and already know it all, so there is no one on this board that will ever teach you anything. Instead of scripture, you use a "Song". Now how can I defend something like that. I am used to debating scripture, not "songs".

BBob,

 

I think Revmitchell meant for you to address Post #52, I would be interested also DHK.

BBob,

 

I am sorry for the confusion. I should have stated the post number. What you responded to is my signature line. The post number I am speaking of is post # 52

 

DHK I thought I would go ahead and pull it up for you.

 

First, as you note, the primary meaning of the word is serve, not worship. Out of 21 usages, 16 of them are translated "serve." That is fairly conclusive. To serve is not necessarily to worship. Thayer gives even more insight to the word giving such meanings as "to serve for hire," and "to officiate."

Secondly, the Book of Hebrews is a book of contrasts. It contrasts the OT Jewish system with the NT dispensation of grace. It warns some of the Hebrews who are thinking of returning and going back into "the old," that is back into Judaism.

Thus in verse 28 there is a warning to those people. There were those Jews who were occupied with the visible ritualism of Judaism, clinging to things that could still be shaken. This is set in contrast to the true believers who have a kingdom which cannot be shaken. This should inspire the most fervent service (or perhaps even worship) and adoration, reverently done with godly fear.
What a contrast there is between the OT covenant and the NT covenant!

However, remember where all of this started from.
It was a simple statement. I believe that worship is primarily done in private and not in the church. This verse does not contradict that. Here the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. Reverential praise is indeed part of worship. I have never denied that.

I disagree. This word does not mean worship. One time in 44 occurences is it translated "worship". The other times it is translated heal. The one time is found in Acts 17:25. The lexicons say that only in a "figurative sense" can the word mean worship.

Agreed. This is the word for worship, the same word found in Rev.4:10.
Worship is to pay homage. This is what I ahve been saying all along.
To God alone do we pay homage. He gets the glory, the worth, the honor. To him alone do we give the "homage."

True. But it is only used this one time in Romans 1:25. It is a later Greek word. It does mean worship. Here Paul uses it in the ocntext of pagans worshiping their gods. They give praise and adoration to their idols, just as we ought to give praise and adoration to our God.
--Nothing here I would disagree with.

Lydia worshiped God--no vain worship there. No disagreement with the word either.
The phrase is: "in vain do you worship me."
--The praise and adoration may still have been there. The attitude may have been wrong. We too must be careful of the same thing. I have no argument with the usage of the word.

Worship is giving God his due worth; the adoration that is due him.
There is a thread in the Other Denom. Forum called: "Is Jesus God?" If the God is worshiped, but at the same time denying his deity, how can he be worshiped "in truth?" It isn't possible? That is what this verse means. It has nothing to do with the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. Our praise of Him must be truthful, according to the Word of God. We must know the God of whom we praise.

There is nothing in those verses that indicate that teaching and preaching is worship--nothing. No one has demonstrated that from Scripture.
I say again: When I come to church I come to be fed from the Word of God. I worship privately, usually at home when I set apart a time to spend time with the Lord in prayer, and adoration of Him.
Worship is giving God his worth--the adoration that is due only Him. There is very little of that in the typical service of a Baptist church service.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revmitchell
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with Reverence and godly fear:
Here we see that worship must be :

1. Acceptable to God
2. Done with reverence and godly fear (which is redundant)
3. Done by the grace of God.

The word serve in this verse is the Greek word "Latreuo" which is a form of the word worship. In the NT this word is used as "serve"16 times, "worship" 3, " do the worship " 1, and "worshiper" 1.


First, as you note, the primary meaning of the word is serve, not worship. Out of 21 usages, 16 of them are translated "serve." That is fairly conclusive. To serve is not necessarily to worship. Thayer gives even more insight to the word giving such meanings as "to serve for hire," and "to officiate."

Secondly, the Book of Hebrews is a book of contrasts. It contrasts the OT Jewish system with the NT dispensation of grace. It warns some of the Hebrews who are thinking of returning and going back into "the old," that is back into Judaism.

Thus in verse 28 there is a warning to those people. There were those Jews who were occupied with the visible ritualism of Judaism, clinging to things that could still be shaken. This is set in contrast to the true believers who have a kingdom which cannot be shaken. This should inspire the most fervent service (or perhaps even worship) and adoration, reverently done with godly fear.
What a contrast there is between the OT covenant and the NT covenant!

However, remember where all of this started from.
It was a simple statement. I believe that worship is primarily done in private and not in the church. This verse does not contradict that. Here the kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. Reverential praise ( expressing or having a quality of reverence) is indeed part of worship. I have never denied that.

Quote:
Another form of the word "worship is the Greek word "Therapeuo". This is most often seen as the word "heal" and is used in reference to the healing of others. In the NT it is seen in every case of Jesus' healings. Interestingly enough it is the where we get our word therapy from.
I disagree. This word does not mean worship. One time in 44 occurences is it translated "worship". The other times it is translated heal. The one time is found in Acts 17:25. The lexicons say that only in a "figurative sense" can the word mean worship.
Quote:
"Proskeneuo"
Quote:
is another Greek form of the word worship. It is always used in the context of simply paying homage. This is seen clearly in 1 Cor 14:25.

Agreed. This is the word for worship, the same word found in Rev.4:10.
Worship is to pay homage. This is what I ahve been saying all along.
To God alone do we pay homage. He gets the glory, the worth, the honor. To him alone do we give the "homage."
Quote:
"Sebazomai" is used only once in Romans 1:25 and is used int he sense of honoring religiously.
True. But it is only used this one time in Romans 1:25. It is a later Greek word. It does mean worship. Here Paul uses it in the ocntext of pagans worshiping their gods. They give praise and adoration to their idols, just as we ought to give praise and adoration to our God.
--Nothing here I would disagree with.
Quote:
""Sebomai" is used in the sense of reverence and can be seen in Acts 16:14. We see this same word used in the sense of vain worship of God (Matt 15:9) Not all worship even directed at God is acceptable worship or correct.
Lydia worshiped God--no vain worship there. No disagreement with the word either.
The phrase is: "in vain do you worship me."
--The praise and adoration may still have been there. The attitude may have been wrong. We too must be careful of the same thing. I have no argument with the usage of the word.
Quote:
Any act done in correct doctrine, (spirit and truth John 4:24) and for the Glory of God (reverence 12:28)

Worship is giving God his due worth; the adoration that is due him.
There is a thread in the Other Denom. Forum called: "Is Jesus God?" If the God is worshiped, but at the same time denying his deity, how can he be worshiped "in truth?" It isn't possible? That is what this verse means. It has nothing to do with the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. Our praise of Him must be truthful, according to the Word of God. We must know the God of whom we praise.
Quote:
The teaching of the word of God was included in the worship of those in Acts 2:42-47. There can be found no where in scripture a division between the preaching of the word and "worship".
__________________
There is nothing in those verses that indicate that teaching and preaching is worship--nothing. No one has demonstrated that from Scripture.
I say again: When I come to church I come to be fed from the Word of God. I worship privately, usually at home when I set apart a time to spend time with the Lord in prayer, and adoration of Him.
Worship is giving God his worth--the adoration that is due only Him. There is very little of that in the typical service of a Baptist church service.
__________________
DHK

Do you give thanks for your Spiritual food, DHK;???


It sures seems to me you denied that giving Reverance to God is not Worship!

BBob,

 

Rev. 7:9"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count,....(10)and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb,'(11)And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God...."

In heaven, the saints have gathered together with the angels and are continually worshipping God (giving thanks, praise, honor, etc.). Since this is occuring even as we speak, we must accept that it is the will of God for there to be corporate worship of saints and angels in heaven.

Matt 6:9-10 "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven. Hallowed be Your name. (10)Your Kingdom come. Your will be done. On earth as it is in heaven.'"(emphasis mine)

Since the will of God for the saints in heaven is to be joined together in corporate worship...

and....

Jesus tells us to pray that God's kingdom on earth reflects what is happening in heaven...

Jesus is telling us to come together for corporate worship. That, too, must be the will of God.

peace to youraying:

 

"...Thy kingdom come"
A prayer for the coming of Christ that will usher in the Millennial Kingdom.

"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

The kingdom on earth (not stated) has nothing to do with the kingdom to come.
You read into the Scripture something that is not there.
God's will is to be done, here on earth, just as it is in heaven. Nothing is said about corporate worship there. I believe in the local church just as strongly, if not more so, than any one else here. It is simply the use of the term "worship" that we are discussing.
An aside: Most churches have the Lord's Supper about once a month.
Most churches just tack the Lord's Supper on the end of an evening service, almost as if it were an after thought, or so it seems.

There are some churches, however, where the Lord's Supper becomes the most worshipful service of the church, and rightly so. There is quite a number of pensive traditional hymns sung, sung in order to get the mind thinking of the sufferings of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a time of self-examination. We want to make sure that we are right with the Lord before we partake of the elements of the Lord's Supper. Thus during that time it is also a time of private prayer. Then there is the actual partaking of the elements, and afterward the singing of another hymn, and a benediction or closing in prayer.
After the hymns there usually is a message as well, but the majority of the service is given to worship. That is the way it was in a church I formerly attended. It is not so common now.

 

I wouldn't belong to a church where you don't worship God.

Bbob,

 

What church do you know of that doesn't worship God?
Please explain.

 

You say that you do not go to church to worship God. Is it just you, or do all the members feel as you do??

BBob,

 

Jesus speaks as if His coming ushered in the Kingdom. We have that tension between the "already" and "not quite yet" of the kingdom.

To say He is referring to the MK is reading into the text (as you have accused me of doing) since the reference is to the Father's kingdom at that time (not the MK of the future).

First, you just contradicted yourself. First you stated that Jesus was referring to the MK, and then you said Jesus was not referring to the MK. You are correct the second time around. He is not referring to the MK, since that is not the context.

Jesus is speaking in the present tense, not future. He is saying that we should pray that the will of God be done on earth, just as it is done in heaven at that very time.

Since the will of God for heaven at that time (and, imo, continually) is that saints be engaged in corporate worship (as clearly demonstrated by the scene from Revelation) then our prayer should be that very scene of corporate worship be reflected here on earth.

Are you saying that the saints are not engaged in corporate worship in heaven, even as we speak?

If the saints in heaven are engaged in corporate worship (which is obvious from Revelation) and Jesus tells us to pray that the will of God be done on earth, just as it is being done in heaven, how can you deny we should be engaged in corporate worship?

The scene in heaven obviously discribes corporate worship around the throne of God. I am surprised you cannot see that.

peace to youraying:

 

Bob I have explained myself many times. I don't believe you read my posts.
You don't seem to have a good grasp of the English language either.
Let me give you an example.

I go to a friend's house to help him on his computer.
He offers me a cup of coffee.
After working on his computer, and having a cup of coffee I come home.

Why did I go to my friend's house?
I went to help him on his computer.
Did I drink coffee? Yes, but that is not the reason why I went there. The reason I went was to help him with his computer.

The reason I go to church is to be fed by the Shepherd.
Do I worship while I am there? Yes, absolutely.
But the reason I go is to be fed. If I was never fed the Word of God in that particular church, I would stop and find another church to go to.

 

I think I understand you now. Correct me if I am wrong. Your view of corporate "worship" is limited to the song service, and/or the administration of the ordinances. Is that right?

I believe you worship God when you voluntarily sit under the God ordained Pastor and listen attentively to his exposition of scripture.

I see your intense desire to be fed by the Word of God as worship. You are ascribing "worth" to God when you are taught by the Word and accept it, and respond by applying it to your heart, your mind and your life.

Worship should not be limited to the songs. Worship is responding to God's revelation (whatever form it takes) with thanksgiving, honor and praise.

That's why we say "amen" to a particularly relevent point from God's Word. We are saying "Yes, that's right!" "Yes, that is Truth!"

That is worship, imo

peace to youraying:

 

Do you have your head with you?
Do you give thanks for your spiritual food?
Do you begin your service with a prayer?
When you leave home, do you know these things will take place.

Do you understand the English Language yourself?
Is your body with you?
Is your body the temple?
Does worship take place in the temple?
Do you know that you will open service with a prayer, of course to God, I don't know who else you would pray to.

Are you sure you know what worship is?

Maybe you worship, and never know it?

Do you know, even though you are going to church to be fed, that you will also worship while there?

BBob,

 

Yes.
Worship, properly defined, is ascribing worth to God, or giving to him the honor and adoration that He alone is worthy of.

That is teaching. I don't see how teachiig is the same as "ascribing worth to God." I am the one receiving instruction here; God isn't the one being praised. How then can it be rightly called worship?

We all need teaching. The command of Christ to Peter was:
"Feed my sheep." That is the primary purpose of the church is the feed the sheep; not to worship. That is why I have been challenging here where our "worship" should be. I believe it is primarily private, alone with God, at a time especially set apart where we can give him the adoration that is due him.

Again I don't find learning the Word of God as worship. I don't find that concept taught anywhere in Scripture. We have a right to our opinions. But can they be backed up with Scripture?

That is not worship. That simply means you are in agreement with what is being said or preached.

Worship is giving God the worth or adoration that is due only to Him and Him alone.