Where The Holy Spirit Is NOT

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hark, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Hark

    Hark
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    This is about testing the spirits so that believers may know the real Holy Spirit from the spirit of the antichrist.

    1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    The verse below is still about testing the spirits. The phrase "is come" means presently as to where Jesus Christ is at now.

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    "That Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" is another way of saying Jesus Christ is in you. Proof of this in testing the spirits may be clearer as we read on.

    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    Verse 3 is testifying that if any one confesses that the "Spirit of Christ" is outside of us in the worship place or anywhere as believers can feel that presence outside of them, that presence is the spirit of the antichrist.

    4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    Now the line of discernment has been drawn as to where the real Holy Spirit is and that is in you as opposing and thus exposing that spirit felt outside of you as being the spirit of the antichrist.

    That includes feeling the spirit coming over you, filling you up, and giving you tongues that comes with no interpretation when you have been a believer for a while now with the Holy Spirit already in you.

    There are familiar spirits in the world that brings a supernatural tongue that is just vain and profane babbling nonsense as found in Isaiah 8:19 .

    Isaiah 8: 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

    And so there is necessity not to believe every spirit as being of God, especially when it brings tongues with no interpretation for that supernatural tongues is of the world.

    1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    Jesus gave us a promise on how we will KNOW the real Spirit of truth from the spirit of error.

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    The days of feeling God's Presence in the Temple or any place else are over.

    1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
     
  2. vooks

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    You are in deep error and you are teaching about errors.

    Look at the highlighted
    The Spirit of God confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
    All other spirits confess either Jesus is not come or He is not come in the flesh.

    If the former means Jesus Christ is in you, what does the latter, a false spirit mean, Jesus is not in you?

    John is combating heresies. Here the problem was not whether Jesus was God or Christ but whether he was fully human.

    You will find numerous defenses of Jesus' humanity in scriptures. I will give you a few;

    John 1:14 (KJV)
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Philippians 2:5-8 (KJV)
    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


    It is precisely for this reason Jesus appeared and stayed with the disciples 40 days after resurrection lest he be mistaken for a ghost.

    I believe the heresy was Gnosticism and its cousin docetism. Denying Jesus' nature is antichrist
     
    #2 vooks, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
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  3. vooks

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    I have tackled this in the previous post. The antichrist is denying Jesus' humanity

    You just made this up, didn't you? And it was based on the previous error of rejecting Jesus is come in the flesh. But you are right. Holy Spirit's temple is believers' hearts not buildings.

    This is a subtle attack of Pentecostalism. But is deeply flawed. If you have a problem with baptism of the Holy Spirit, please say so and I will walk you through it.

    There is no test of the gift of tongues by the ability to interpret. In fact, existence of the gift of interpretation strongly suggests some NEVER interpreted it while they had it.

    And there is another that blasphemes Holy Spirit by calling Him baalzebub

    If you have the gift, the solution is to pray for interpretation as Paul taught Corinthians. However, before interpreting, keep the gift private

    1 Corinthians 14:13 (KJV)
    Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.


    1 Corinthians 14:27-28 (KJV)
    If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God
    .

    Once again @Hark, your counsel is not only baseless but it is toxic.

    Largely true
     
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  4. Hark

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    You are only reciting a popular accepted teaching of educated Biblical scholars of the day. take a step back and discern this.

    1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    Verse 1 sets the topic; it is about testing the spirits.

    If what you and others say is true that John suddenly switch topic to talk about a heresey of doubting He had ever come in the flesh, then explain verse 3 in how it singles out the spirit of the antichrist of being in the world.

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    From verse 1 to verse 4, John talks about testing the spirits and so you guys are reading it wrong when it comes to this conclusion below.

    4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    John did not say "if anyone confessed that Jesus had not come in the flesh... " as in past tense, but John had written " And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God".

    So it is about testing the spirits presently as to where Jesus Christ is.

    How reasonable is it to start talking about testing the spirits and then switch out to the heresey that you and most others claim and then go back to the conclusion of testing the spirits in verse 4?

    But again, it is on God to cause the increase. Sometimes when a believer has been trained to apply certain scripture in only one way, they refuse to see it in context for the way it was written.
     
  5. vooks

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    Popularity of a teaching does not make it true, but a virtually nonexistent interpretation of scripture across centuries of Christianity is a good indicator of a false one.

    It is about testing spirits BY WHAT THEY SAY/CONFESS

    You need to improve your comprehension.
    I can't see any switch in topic. John is all about testing spirits throughout and he singles out doubts not of Jesus coming but his humanity.

    We are in agreement that the test is doctrine. We only differ on which doctrine.

    You wildly claim that the doctrine is denying Holy Spirit in the believer

    This is not a conclusion but a different aspect of his message. How many themes can you pick in this epistle or any other?

    And why would testing spirits be related to overcoming?

    So it boils down to tenses?
    First, there is not a single association of Jesus Christ with flesh which is not about his humanity

    Secondly, you will need to give biblical examples of 'come in the flesh' referring to believers

    Thirdly. I strongly suggest you acquaint yourself with some basic Greek so you stop posting nonsense here.
    Start on this interlinear of the verse
    http://biblehub.com/text/1_john/4-2.htm

    There is no switch in the subject from verse 1-3except in the figment of your imagination. All the three verses tell us about testing the spirits. In verse 4 he moves on to encourage them about overcoming.

    It is ok to differ with interpretation but there must be some sound objective basis for differing. Mindlessly opposing scriptures without any basis is cultism.

    Being different is not being right. Get a firm foundation for differing.
     
  6. Hark

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    No. 1 John 4:1 sets the topic and that is to test the spirits.

    Can't be when it is about testing the spirits as stated in 1 John 4:1

    At least you know that truth. Watch out for believers when they say that the Spirit of Christ is here or there because that is not the indwelling Holy Ghost but the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world.

    I have a problem with any one teaching that you can receive the Holy Spirit again like this false teaching of receiving another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

    1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;

    The believer speaking in God's gift of tongues does not understand it himself either, but God does understand that tongue, which is why Paul prayed that someone else will interpret by the Holy Spirit that tongue that the Holy Spirit is manifesting so that the tongue would be fruitful to him too.

    1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

    And so when there is no interpretor, that means he is a foreigner and is speaking out of turn and that is why he is instructed to be made silent in the church.

    1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    Discern this: who is Paul to silent any one speaking in God's gift of tongues if the Holy Spirit is manifesting that tongue? If it was a prayer language manifested by the Holy Spirit, would not Paul say that if there is no interpretation, then it must be prayer time? But no.

    So when Paul said that he speaks to himself and to God in verse 28, Paul meant that he is a foreigner that understands what he is saying and so does God.

    And so the claim that if someone speaks in tongue where there is no interpretation, it does not mean what you say it means.

    Paul gave the bottom line on God's gift of tongues and what they were for and that was for speaking unto the people in their native language.

    That is all His gift of tongues were for.

    1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

    Once again, vooks, it is on God to cause the increase. Logic has nothing to do with receiving His truth. Babes can receive the truth before the wise and prudent of the world thanks to the Father; Matthew 11:25-27

    As it is, believers have pulled 1 Corinthians 14:14 out of context to imply that Paul prayed in tongues instead of in context of verse 13 where Paul was talking about praying that the tongue he was saying would be interpreted while he was speaking in tongues.

    Well, I am glad that you know that the only way you can know the real Holy Spirit is by Him being in you; not out there seeking to be received again by pushing people around or making them fall down or bark like a dog, or be stricken mute or act like a fish out of the water, or speak in tongues that comes with no interpretation.

    1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

    1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    When believers are claiming to receive tongues which comes with no interpretation by that second supernatural phenomenon, you better believe that they did so believing that spirit to be coming over them assuming it was the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit was already in them.

    No believer has ever had God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people that comes by receiving the Holy Spirit "again" which is why all those tongues coming by that second experience is just babbling nonsense that comes with no interpretation, because it is not of Him at all.
     
    #6 Hark, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  7. Hark

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    And yet after that testing, it points out what that spirit of antichrist is as it exists IN THE WORLD.

    It did not say "kick out that person that confesses so."

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    The end conclusion of this test is to assure believer that the One in you is greater than the one in the world.

    Do you believe you can receive another baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues? If not, then 1 John 4:1-6 reproves that cultic notion, but again, only God can cause the increase.
     
  8. vooks

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    Don't be silly, you test these spirits by what they confess. What they confess is doctrine/teaching
    spirits here re tested by CONFESSION. What else do they confess except doctrine?
    And watch out for those claiming to be illuminated but can't substantiate their beliefs. These are delusional and cultic fellas. Every cult pretends to have a peculiar way of interpreting scriptures that is often not only unorthodox but completely baseless
    So those believers who were laid hands on so they could speak in tongues...what did they receive? Did they have the Spirit before?

    Acts 19:1-6 (KJV)
    And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    Bro, have as many problems as you wish but I pray you stick to scriptures and not nonsense
    All true

    Don't be silly. Corporate/communal prayer is ineffectual to those around without interpretation. How can they give an amen(agree with you) if they can't hear you? This commonsensical rule equally applies when you pray in a foreign language.

    Read here
    1Corinthians 14:16-17 (KJV)
    Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.


    Note the thanksgiving is WELL but non-edifying so for all its 'well', it is to be avoided.

    Don't be silly, it is no foreigner but one operating in the gift.

    It means exactly that. Unless you have intelligent and logical scriptural alternative meaning
    [quotePaul gave the bottom line on God's gift of tongues and what they were for and that was for speaking unto the people in their native language.[/quote]
    Nowhere is this mentioned. Give me scriptural proof that tongues were for preaching to natives. To whom were the Corinthians preaching to since they operated in tongues?

    You find tongues used in prayer, thanksgiving, prophecy....but no preaching to natives
    By logic I don't mean appeal to philosophies, but rather there MUST be a Scritpural basis for your beliefs. When Jesus resisted the de il, He used logic; scriptures to say no. If you cling to beliefs backed by nothing, you are in risk of delusion and heresies

    The message of tongues is super clear bro. Tongues have diverse uses but in all these, in absence of interpretation, they should never be used publicly. What is clear is tongues have no record of delivering sermons nowhere in the scriptures. That is a doctrine of Devils. It's a lie from hell
    Go back to Acts 19 and tell me what these Christians received.

    There are abuses of all sorts of doctrines but the solution is not disuse but proper use. Corinthians were abusing them. Paul's solution was REGULATING them not banning them nor ascribing them to demons

    There were believers in Corinth who could not interpret their tongues hence Paul's counsel.

    So the test for authenticity of tongues is not interpretation. That is another lie from the pit of hell. Man you got many lies
    Explain Acts 19 as quoted above. Let God be true and all men liars...and if I may add idiots
     
  9. Hark

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    It did not say test the apostles. It did not say test the believers. It said to test the spirits.

    It said to believers not to believe every spirit ( not person ) but test the spirit and that is by how the person is testifying of that spirit.

    Every spirit that confesses to what that spirit is; if a believer confesses that Jesus Christ is in him, then that spirit is of God. If a believer confesses that the Spirit of Christ is in the room or in that worship place, then that is the spirit of the antichrist.

    Preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues is of Pentecostal/Charismatic circles, brother.

    So you are familiar with the popular misreading of Acts 19:1-8 . Let's go over that reference below.

    Acts 19:1-6 (KJV)
    And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

    Paul came across 12 men that were some kind of disciples, but did not know what kind. This is why Paul had asked this question.

    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    So these disciples had testified that they had not received the Holy Ghost, which was why Paul had asked again another question to discern what kind of disciples these twelve men were.

    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

    There you have it. They were disciples of John the Baptist's. They were not believers in Jesus Christ or else they would have referred to the water baptism in Jesus's name.

    Then Paul told them about Jesus Christ as being the One that John the Baptist was talking about that these twelve men should believe on.

    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    So they were never believers in Jesus Christ in the first place.

    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Now they were baptized in Jesus's name, signifying that they are believers in Jesus Christ.

    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    So they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit after they had believed in Jesus Christ and had been water baptized in His name.

    Receiving another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues is not of Him. Believers often quote this passage as verification that believers do not always receive the promise of the Holy Spirit, but these certain disciples were not believers in Jesus Christ in the first place.

    God's gift of tongues of other men's lips will be and can be interpreted. That was Paul's whole point right there. You bold it in red too as Paul was stressing that point that tongues will come with interpretation so that the other may be edified.

    Foreigners will come into the church at Corinth; a city which is a popular travel way for many foreigners. Therefore any foreigner among them may step out of order by speaking in his native language when he is not really speaking with God's gift of tongues.

    Paul saying that he speaks to himself and to God means he understand what he is saying as God does which is not like God's gift of tongues in verse 2 which you had agreed with me earlier that the tongue speaker does not understand what he is saying.

    Which is why in that verse, he is seen as speaking unto God, not that He is speaking TO God, because the man is speaking mysteries which there are no mysteries to God, therefore the man speaking unto God meaning God understands what he is saying; not that he is speaking to Him.

    to be continued...
     
  10. Hark

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    1 Corinthians 14:Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

    Acts 2:

    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
    7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.



    Their church was open to the public where foreigners are free to come in.

    Don't forget now; you said that Paul was praying that someone will interpret the tongue he was saying as manifested by the Holy Spirit. You can't use that verse to mean something else like Paul was praying in tongues when he wasn't.

    As for thanksgiving and prophesy, Paul stressed interpretation to follow as interpretation is supposed to follow any tongue manifested by the Holy Spirit, unless otherwise understood by a foreigner.

    There is. The devil's tongue, which is vain and profane babblings, had existed in the world before Pentecost had come with God's gift of tongues. So is God a copycat of Satan's tongue? No. Therefore I believe Paul when he said that God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

    Paul gave a clear teaching of what the manifestations of the Spirit is for too, and that is to profit the body of Christ withal. And when tongues are manifested, it will be followed by interpretation of that tongue.

    1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    So not only Paul set precedent for tongues to follow by interpretation in the assembly, but he testified that no one need to have another drink of the One Spirit to get any gifts of the Spirit.

    When believers want to believe that their tongue which comes with no interpretation to be of God, they will look for it without taking anything in context of that epistle.

    Not once, did Paul ever gave instructions about the private use of tongues.

    Acts 2:
    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11 Cretes and Arabians,
    we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    They were not christians when Paul had met them.

    The apostle John did that in 1 John 4:1-6 and Jesus did too in John 10:1-11 as a stranger's voice for going up around Jesus by addressing the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them to get this tongue which comes without interpretation... hence the stranger's voice.

    Feel free to show a verse that Paul was addressing these believers in Corinth about the problem they were having of interpreting their own tongue, because I do not know where that is.

    The problem here is that you think the Holy Spirit will use tongues for praying and yet the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/how-the-holy-spirit-speaks.98067/

    Explained at this link to this thread in this sub forum if you want another example of how Apollos was just a disciple of John the Baptist's before he became a believer.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...hn-the-baptists-after-the-resurrection.98358/
     
  11. vooks

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    Whatever is being tested CONFESSES something. What else do you think has the ability to confess? Don't be dumb please!

    In short you test the spirit by what somebody is CONFESSING, which means you test somebody's words and you can only do this if they speak up. So exactly what are you contending?

    You need to drop psychedelic mushrooms. It is not Jesus being in somebody but Jesus having come in the flesh. If the Holy Spirit needed your assistance with vocabularies, you'd have been born in the first century and penned a few epistles. As it were, you are not fit for such a noble role. So stick to scriptures not vain imaginations

    You will need to outgrow cliches if you want to be helped. You will need to demonstrate exactly how one baptism differs with another and not just wildly claim that it is wrong. Ok?
    You are a serialmoron for mistaking these for John's disciples.
    What would John's disciples be doing in Corinth which is about 5,222 Kilometers away?
    And where else have you seen BELIEVING in Acts meaning anything but believing in Jesus Christ?

    So according to you, one can't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit UNTIL they receive water baptism?

    How about Cornelius household who received the baptism of Holy Spirit before
    (a) they heard about baptism of Holy Spirit
    (b) they had been baptized in water?

    And what about these disciples of Samaria who had been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ yet they only received the Holy Spirit much later?
    Acts 8:14-17 (KJV)
    Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost
    .

    I have fed you with Acts 8:14-17 where believers who had been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ received the Holy Spirit AFTER their baptism. This shatters your silly theory. Read it up there
    But they are not always interpreted. That's the point!
    This is a figment of your hallucination. Paul is speaking about spiritual gifts in the three chapters 12-14
    He is clear if you can't interpret, nobody understand including yourself. If you did understand your tongues, would that not amount to interpreting? Drop this arrant stupidity
    Speaking UNTO God is the same as speaking TO God you confused fella. UNTO is archaic English for TO
     
  12. vooks

    vooks
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    [Edited: Name Calling], if the Corinthian tongues was to accommodate the foreigners, then why did they need interpretation? And why was it that in absence of interpretation the speakers required to keep them off public?

    Do you see your idiocy?
    Say we have a room with Chinese and Americans. And you speak in Chinese supernaturally. The Americans would never understand a single word. Now you can only speak in Chinese if there is an interpreter of Chinese for the Americans. This interpreter will be supernaturally enabled to interpret Chinese for the Americans. If there is no such interpreter, you are to stop speaking in Chinese. Tell me. Now that you have ceased talking in Chinese, how will the Chinese in the congregation say amen to your prayers?

    It is. True there were foreigners but they used the common language of Greek. That's why NT was penned in Greek
    Please use sense. Can't make any sense of what you just wrote
    Don't imagine that Holy Spirit requires your puny brains to interpolate what He never said. He says if there is no interpretation, there should be no tongues. And not 'unless otherwise understood by a foreigner.
    There are false tongues alright and there are false demonic doctrines such as what you are peddling which has zero basis in scriptures. How do you speak to other people when you pray in tongues? Are you praying to men?
    Very true. But tongues are not always interpreted. This is why he encouraged the tongue speakers to pursue interpretation so they may benefit all. He did not (unlike your [Edited: Name Calling] self) dismiss uninterpteted tongues as demonic
    Very true but in Acts 8 we find believers baptized in the name of Jesus being laid hands on long after they got born again. Call it whatever you will but facts and especially divinely inspired facts are stubborn. They are like hammer. They smash idiocy to smithereens
    When demonic teachers blaspheme Holy Spirit by ascribing His uninterpreted tongues to demons, they are in danger of hellfire as Jesus taught us.
    So what was he saying here;
    1 Corinthians 14:4-5 (ESV)
    4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up
    .
    Uninterpteted tongues edify the speaker. Once interpreted, they edify everyone. So uninterpteted tongues are still potent
    Believe in all Acts is for a faith in Jesus.
    I have responded to this point previously. Besides, what about Acts 8 believers who had been baptized in Jesus name by Philip the evangelist? Were they also not Christians?
    What exactly is the problem? Praying for believers to receive the gift of the Spirit or praying for them to receive the gift of tongues?
    [Edited: Name Calling], you are the one who claims that tongues in Corinth was to help in communicating to foreigners
    The problem here is that Paul tells me that uninterpteted tongues edify the speaker. They are that potent. 1 Cor14:4
    Believed means they were Christians. But I will let that pass. How do you spin away Acts 8?
    Acts 8:14-17 (ESV)
    14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit
    .

    Were they Christians?
    What did they have before Peter and John laid hands on them?
    What did they receive that was so conspicuous that Simon the magician desired to buy the same ability?
     
  13. Hark

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    Then why is it by what that person is confessing is the conclusion of that test on that spirit rather than on that person? Do you see any instructions to correct or excommunicate that person confessing afterwards? But no.

    So yes, I agree that it is done by what believers are confessing as in noticing something about that spirit, but it is what they are saying is how they test the spirits, because that is how one tests the spirits individually.

    That is why it ends in verse 4 about greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. This is an individual test result by what you acknowledge of confess about that spirit in testing it.

    It did not end with the conclusion that you and others see as being about the confessor because we do not see the judgment on the person confessing that way as saying that is a false prophet in verse 4.

    So it is about how one acknowledges ( confesses ) where the Spirit of Christ is... whether He is in you as in "is come in the flesh" as in verse 2 or acknowledging where that spirit of the antichrist is by confessing NOT by saying Jesus Christ is come in the flesh which is the same as NOT saying Christ is in you in verse 3.

    Because in verse 3, it is by what that believer notices where that spirit is at, as in outside of you is how we will know the spirit of the antichrist.

    So verses 3 & 4 is why I read it the correct way by Him for the topic for how individual believers are to be testing the spirits; not people.

    Are there people in you? Then that is how you are applying 1 John 4:4 as opposing false prophets outside of you. It can't be both in verse 4. You can't be talking about Jesus in you as being greater than false people outside of you. Therefore this is about testing the spirits in knowing where the Spirit of Christ is dwelling so that you may know what the spirit of the antichrist is as being in the world as outside of you.

    Then 1 John 5-6 goes to discerning professing believers that have not tested the spirits properly as warned in 1 John 4:2 to prove that they did not test the spirits.

    Snarky remark or an accusation made in the flesh? One way or another, it is not made by the Spirit in you. That's your flesh posting. Stick to the topic, brother. Be Spirit led.

    1 John 4:1-6 isn't just about knowing false prophets because 1 John 4:1 says it is about testing the spirits in knowing what that spirit of antichrist is that is in the world so that you may know whom the false prophets are of 1 John 4:2.

    If it was only about false prophets, then they 1 John 4:1 would be about testing the false prophets; not the spirits.

    I pray that God will have you pay attention;

    There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit ( Ephesians 4:4-6 ) as that is the one hope of our calling which is the one that Jesus gives at our salvation as it is received by faith; not by sight. Don't bother citing tongues as a sign when Paul said signs are not used to prove to a believer that they have the Holy Spirit when born again. ( 1 Corinthians 14:22 ) So there is only one drink of the One Spirit by which we ALL have been baptized with; 1 Corinthians 12:13

    It is when you HEAR them preaching this "ANOTHER baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues" that I am speaking against. Some disguise it by asking "Have you received the filling of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues since you have been born again?"

    This is the hypocrisy spoken of in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and why believers are failing in testing that spirit when the Holy Spirit is ALREADY in believers when they got born again. There is no filling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation because it is our being Spirit-filled is a testimony that we are born again and thus saved. Matthew 9:17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

    I am not allowed to link to apostate cites for you to read the Pentecostal/Charismatic teaching nonsense. You can do your own search on the internet for such wording as preaching to receive the Holy Spirit "again".

    Explain why if they were believers in Jesus Christ that Paul had to tell them that John the Baptist was talking about Jesus as the One they were supposed to believe on?

    No. I am pointing out by what water baptism these disciples were under to signify what kind of disciples they were as they were still disciples of John the Baptist's that still had not believed in Jesus Christ yet.

    Here is evidence that there were still disciples of John when Jesus was on earth as opposing being identified as Jesus's disciples.

    Matthew 9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

    Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. 17 And this rumour of him went forth throughout all Judaea, and throughout all the region round about. 18 And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things. 19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

    John 3:24 For John was not yet cast into prison. 25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

    Note in verse 25, not all of John's disciples got that message from John.

    So how many disciples of John were there?

    John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

    Must be a lot.

    Matthew 14:10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. 11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. 12 And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus.

    So that pretty much pictures John's disciples as pretty much spread out all over the place since John the Baptist's arrest.

    Acts 19:1-7 pretty much shows how far apart they were.

    To be continued... God be willing...
     
  14. Hark

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    That was not my point. It was about what water baptism they were under signifying what kind of disciples they were.

    Only because you want to believe in tongues that comes with no interpretation by receiving the Holy Spirit again.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    That means you are reading an event in Acts 8:14-17 wrong.

    Luke is the author of Acts and he is giving a history of the early church account. He is not writing an epistle as instruction to the churches, and so believers need to be aware when they are trying to fit their false teachings inbetween the lines especially when it runs contrary to scripture elsewhere in the N.T.

    So may God help Romans 8:9 sink into your ears when you read Acts 8:14-17.

    What was the believers in that area believing in?

    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

    They believed the things; not in Jesus Christ, but the things Philip was preaching. It was not a personal belief yet in Jesus Christ, but they were following Philip in what he was preaching about these things.

    Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

    Simon believed in the same way as the others did as Philip was getting a following in spite of them being water baptized in Jesus's name.

    Paul had this trouble too with water baptism as people were identifying themselves with those that baptize them as being their followers.

    1 Corinthians 1: 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    So obviously, more disciples were needed to go down there to get people's eyes off of Philip and on Jesus Christ as their hearts were not quite right with God in coming to Jesus because they were coming to Philip as being followers of him.

    Even Simon was just a fan as he hoped to buy the power of being able to give the Holy Spirit to others by the laying on of hands. That is why others were needed to get past that fan boy adoration of Philip to start seeing the God they are all representing and that is Jesus Christ to believe in Him and not just the things Philip was preaching in following Philip.

    That is how I am seeing this scenario at the moment, but it is not plainly written to explain it that way but there are a lot of scripture besides just Romans 8:9 that says you are reading Acts wrong to fit this other supernatural experience that comes with evidence of tongues into scripture as if Jesus does not keep His promise of giving the Spirit to believers when they are saved as in born again aka born of the Spirit.

    It is important to point out that when they had received the Holy Spirit, none of them spoke in tongues.

    John 16:13 testifies that the Spirit cannot speak for Himself, therefore He cannot use God's gift of tongues which is to speak unto the people only to turn it around to speak back TO God, because He cannot speak for Himself.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    When Jesus was on earth, the Holy Ghost served as the Spirit of the Father. Now that Jesus has ascended, the Holy Ghost is serving as the Spirit of Christ. The Holy Spirit cannot take time out and speak for Himself as if He can say "Okay now. This is the Holy Spirit speaking now, and I am not speaking for Jesus Christ, your Good Shepherd. I am now using tongues to pray to God."

    It is not happening. You need to test the tongues and not just the spirits.

    I believe God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people and that God would never mimick the devil's tongue of vain and profane babblings as found in the world before Pentecost had come with God's actual gift of tongues.
     
  15. Hark

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    So that the whole church is edified.

    That your way of being made silent, keep them off public? I had already explained this to you that 1 Corinthians 14:28 was about a foreigner speaking out of turn which is why they can tell him to be silent because God's gift of tongues will always come with interpretation. That is who believers in the assembly will know when a foreigner speaks out of turn as opposing God's actual gift of tongues.

    I do see your flesh rearing again. Try being led by the Spirit next time when you post.

    That situation depends if you are in China or in America. The land you are in designate the native language as the normal speech in that church. It is not always the case since one can have a Chinese speaking church in America, but the point is; what language is native in that church to ascertain what language is being manifested by the Holy Spirit to speak to a visiting foreigner by?

    How would you know if someone that is an American speaking Chinese because he can speak Chinese as opposed to the language of Chinese being manifested by the Holy Ghost? Discerning of spirits? Will God give that gift to someone to judge it, especially when it is not coming with interpretation? It would need that gift because an American may know Chinese and the Holy Spirit may just be manifesting prophecy in that American to speak edification by the knowledge of his Chinese.

    Let me ask you this;

    If tongues can be used for prayer and for self edification and for giving thanks WITHOUT interpretation, then how would you know what it was that you were doing? Would any believer not be confused by that? And yet God is not the author of confusion.

    So in no way Paul was ever endorsing tongues to be used privately because he was using 1 Corinthians 14 th chapter in exhorting believers that seek spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophecy over all spiritual gifts and began to explain why by comparing the gift of prophecy against the gift of tongues on why the gift of prophecy is better, and that is because the gift of tongues is NOT a stand alone gift since it has to come with interpretation for it to be even fruitful to the tongue speaker.
     
  16. vooks

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    @Hark
    do you operate in any spiritual gift?
     
  17. Hark

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    I know the Lord is with me in according to our faith ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ), but as far as spiritual gift goes, how can I say what gift I have to you when there is no way for you to confirm it? I need two or three witnesses to confirm that I have this gift to you. 2 Corinthians 13:1 John 8:17

    I can't speak for myself; John 5:31 John 7:18

    But, yes, in according to His word, just as there are members in every body, so is every one operating in a spiritual gift.

    1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal....11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

    I just do not believe God's gift of tongues would mimick the devil's tongue that was in the world before Pentecost had come. Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 Or else, how could we do this?

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips for God to speak unto the people. 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 It is not to serve as a sign for the believers as proof of anything ( 1 Corinthians 14:22 )

    With so much abuse in tongues, especially with the kind that is supporting apostasy as a sign ( Matthew 12:39 & 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ), I doubt God would even bother to manifest His gift of tongues in a church where everybody is speaking the same language when the gift of prophecy will do for the edification of the church as well as the written scripture of the KJV to be received with His discernment and wisdom, since Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 12:7 & also...

    2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
     
    #17 Hark, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  18. vooks

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    @Hark
    Away with meaningless babble. Witnesses are required when evidence is needed. Besides, you have mentioned many things that nobody else here knows yet you never shied away from such simply because there are no witnesses 'to confirm it'

    Now, nobody asked for evidence, just a simple question;
    Do you have any spiritual gift?
     
    #18 vooks, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  19. Hark

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    Yes.
     
  20. vooks

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    What is your spiritual gift?
     

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