Where was Jesus ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jeben, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. jeben

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    Between the death on the cross and the resurrection where was Jesus ? He was not seen before the resurrection and he had not yet ascended.
     
  2. annsni

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    While His body didn't physically go to heaven yet, His Spirit did. He was not in hell as some say He was. :)

    I THINK there was a relatively recent thread on this.

    Darn - the search isn't working for some reason. But I know there was discussion on whether Jesus went to hell or not between the cross and the resurrection.
     
  3. Zenas

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    "He descended into Hell" doesn't mean He went to the place of eternal torment. Jesus did descend to Sheol, the abode of the dead and freed those righteous souls who had gone before Him. Scriptural support can be found in these and other passages of scripture:
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Jesus was with the Father during those three days.

    'Absent from the body, present with the Lord.' I read that somewhere.
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

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    He was where He was because that is where He was.

    I cannot think of a Scripture that states where He was. Some claim that 1 Peter 3:18-20 teaches he went and preached to the saints the Gospel. I am not sure that is a proper interpretation.

    At this point I cannot say for sure. The Scripture seems silent and unclear on it so I must be also. But where it is unclear to me, another it may seem plain.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    I think He was with the Father. He poured out His blood on the true mercy seat. But don't ask me to prove it. :saint:
     
  7. percho

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    I do not know how it could be any clearer that this.

    having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses;

    There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation [day]; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
     
  8. webdog

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    We know by what He told the thief on the cross that on that day He was in paradise (Luke 23:43). I don't think it gets any clearer than that. :)
     
  9. Logos1

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    The key is knowing how "today" is used

    Well not so fast. If you make the all too often mistake of isolating Luke 23:43 unto itself and reading it like its English literature then you can come to the conclusion that Jesus is telling the thief on the cross that in a 24 hour period of time they will be in heaven together (or whatever other definition you assign to paradise). But this is not what the bible is saying.

    There is a specific name for this type of rhetorical scheme, but I can’t remember what it is.

    The key is to read this in the Jewish context it was written in.

    This is similar to the many passages in Deuteronomy where Moses uses the expression “today” to put emphasis on what he is telling the Hebrew people. Deut 4:40, 7:11, 8:1, 8:11 among others.

    To paraphrase Jesus he is saying “I’m promising you today, that you will be with me in heaven.”

    Keep the verse in context with the rest of the bible. If he could go to heaven that day then Jesus wouldn’t have to go prepare a place for him and then return for him.

    When “today” is used in this context it’s to emphasize what is being said at that moment. What is being said applies to the future.

    Jesus prepared the place for us and came back in 70 AD when the New Covenant was consummated and now when we die we do go straight to heaven into God’s presence. Jesus’ coming back was future to the thief and is history to us.

    If you are a futurist and think Christ hasn’t returned yet then you have to believe that when you die you are heading off to Sheol until Christ returns for you. Hence, an advantage of being a full preterist.


    “Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

    Why thank you Mel!
     
  10. Steadfast Fred

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    Your claim that Jesus came back in 70AD does not line up with the Word of God.
     
  11. Amy.G

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    Well that certainly is a paraphrase. I couldn't find even one version that has that sentence punctuated the way you have. I guess you are smarter than all the translators of the past 700 years or so.
     
  12. dwmoeller1

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    The best way to reconcile all the various hints and statements seems to be the view the Jesus descended to "Abraham's bosom", that is, the portion of Hades for the righteous dead, also known as "Paradise".

    Thus, the thief was with Him that day in Paradise when they both descended to Hades at death. This lines up both with what is explicitly stated, with the few stories that relate to the question (ie. the parable and Lazarus and the rich man), as well as the various historical doctrines of the church (ie. the Apostle's Creed). It requires no crazy or heretical doctrine (ie. Him taking His literal blood to heaven) and creates no conflict with any other orthodox doctrines. All in all, Occams's razor would suggest that this is the best view to hold if one is going to hold any.

    Regardless, the main problems with the whole question seem to result from confusing terms such as "heaven", "paradise", "hell" and "hades".
     
  13. Zenas

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    But then we have that pesky little verse in John 20:
    I recognize that Jesus' encounter with Mary Magdalene is not completely dispositive but he did say "I have not yet ascended," meaning this was something He still had to do.
     
  14. dwmoeller1

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    Given that
    a. the spirit going to the Lord after death is never spoken of as 'ascending/ed'
    b. that the ascension of Jesus physically occurs 40 days later,
    this doesn't seem to create a problem for Christ going to God's presence upon death. In fact, the most straightforward reading is to see this as Christ referring to His physical ascension that was yet to come, not what happened to His spirit as a result of death.

    On the other hand, the concept "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" isn't a good one to argue that Christ went to God's presence at His death, for several reasons. For one, "Lord" in 2 Cor 5:8 is referring to Jesus, not the Father - it means 'to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ'. Thus to apply it to Christ's death would have it mean that when Jesus died He was present with Himself.

    So, even though 2 Cor 5:8 doesn't indicate that He went to the Father's presence upon death, John 20 doesn't indicate that He didn't. There is good reason to believe He didn't, but there is also room to believe that He did. But neither John 20 or 2 Cor 5 negate or really even support either belief.
     
    #14 dwmoeller1, Oct 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2010
  15. webdog

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    I'll take the literal interpretation of it minus the preteristic spin instead :)
     
  16. Winman

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    He was in the heart of the earth.

    Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Now, after Jesus rose, I believe he ascended and spent 7 days at the door of the tabernacle in heaven just as Aaron and his sons had to do in the OT.

    Lev 8:33 And ye shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you.

    On the 8th day they could enter the tabernacle and offer the sacrifices.

    Lev 9:1 And it came to pass on the eighth day, that Moses called Aaron and his sons, and the elders of Israel;
    2 And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the LORD.


    We see something very similar with Jesus. The very day he rose from the dead he would not allow Mary to touch him. The OT priests could not be touched either as they would be defiled.

    John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    But after 8 days, and after offering the sacrifice, the priests could be touched by the people, because now the people were clean. And Jesus also allowed his disciples to touch him after 8 days.

    John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
    27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.


    So, I believe that Jesus spent 7 days consecrating himself at the door of the tabernacle just as the OT priests had to do. They had to be clean, and no one was allowed to touch them. After offering a sacrifice for the people, the people were now clean and could touch the high priest. And this is why after 8 days Jesus allowed his disciples to touch him.
     
    #16 Winman, Oct 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2010
  17. percho

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    That is as clear as where someone puts a comma. No?
     
  18. Jim1999

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    There is some thought that Jesus ascended to heaven's gate and then descended into Abraham's bosom to preach to all those before the cross and lift them into heaven...all theories, of course.

    Asking this question is no different than asking where all the believers in the Old Testament times went. Abraham's bosom does appear in a number of passages..I can't remember them just now; one in Peter and one in Ephesus..................

    We do know that he died physically, but not in spirit. We know that he ascended somewhere and then descended back to earth. We know that the one thief went somewhere,perhaps joined the OT folks,,he would still be with Jesus if Christ joined them as I mentioned.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  19. dwmoeller1

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    How do we know this?
     
  20. annsni

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    Actually it's that He first descended then ascended. :)
     

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