Whether you tithe or whether you don't, it matters not to me......

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Scarlett O., Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Let me start by saying that I do believe in tithing. I don't consider myself morally superior to anyone who doesn't or more spiritually enlightened than anyone who doesn't. I don't tithe because I feel forced to. God has just convicted me in that area of tithes and offerings.

    I'm not going to pat anyone on the back for tithing or give them a piece of candy for it and neither am I going to wag my finger in the face of anyone who doesn't and say, "tsk! tsk!".

    All that is between you and the LORD and not you and me.

    But I do want to you consider what the LORD has in mind for you in terms of giving to storehouse, the local church in 2007. Not the Jerry Lewis Telethon or the local charity or the poor neighbor down the road.

    I believe in giving to all of those. We should put money in Salvation Army bucket and we should buy groceries for those who don't have the money and give toiletry items to the battered women's shelter and send Christmas boxes around the world to needy children and raise money for St. Jude's.

    I believe in all of that.....anonymously and in the name of Jesus Christ. But I also believe in giving to the local church.

    I really am not looking for a debate or discussion, but I just want to present scripture for you to pray about and meditate on and to use as a springboard for your decision making as to what to give to your local church in 2007 based on God's leading in your life.

    My pastor gave this outline last Sunday night. Think about it.

    (1.) God owns it all. "The earth is the LORD's and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." Psalms 24:1

    (2.) We have been bought with a price and therefore belong to God. "What? Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

    (3.) Prayerfully and privately consider giving at least a tithe, if not more. "Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house and prove me now herewith, said the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that here shall not be room enough to receive it." Malachi 3:10

    (4.) Whatever you give, you should give to the LORD first. "Honor the LORD with your substance and with the first fruits of all your increase: So shall your barns be filled with plenty, and your presses shall burst out with new wine." Proverbs 3:9-10

    (5.) We should give with joy. "Every man according as he purposed in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or out of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:7

    (6.) We can't out give God. "Give, and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you mete with it shall be measured to you again." Luke 6:38

    That was my pastor's sermon on giving.

    This is from me......We own nothing. God owns everything, including our possessions and body. Someday someone else is going to be in charge of our money and possessions that we sometimes so greedily cling to.

    We don't own the money, the houses, the jewelry, or the material wealth.

    We are just caretakers of it for a while. Someone else will have our houses and money someday.

    God gave us temporary ownership of these things for a while. Like the parable of the talents in the New Testament, let's see if we can be considered wise and faithful stewards of the material gain that God have granted us temporary custody of.

    We can take NONE of it with us. But God does expect to see where we tried to give it back to Him and His work and made a nice "profit", in His Name.

    What will your giving be like to the LORD in 2007?
     
  2. Phillipians121

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    The principles you put fourth for thithing ( "giving" since the NT never says to thith) should also be applied to serving and witnessing. If one is only giving yet not giving of ones self in all areas, I do not think his heart is in the right place.

    God wants all of us and when we are filled with the Holy Spirit it will be evident in all aspects of our life including giving of our money.

    I personally do not like putting money in buckets at the store for all I know someone who may not represent an orginization may be scamming people.
    I also try and give homeless people food or needs instead of money....along with a tract.
     
  3. Alcott

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    "We can't out give God"

    That little statement is brought up quite often in relation to giving, and it's stupid if you think about it. Who, among any hearers, thinks one can outgive God? That statement is an insult. And it should not do anything positive for this mind-altering campaign to give more-- wanting people to give more 'to' the God who has everything, which would mean nobody can give him anything. No matter how much the truth is unlikeable, this is another effort that relies on fantasy to make churche and ministers richer.

     
  4. Mexdeaf

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    But in the back of their minds many people DO believe that they give far more than they get. That is our sinful nature.

    It is not the pastor's command that people give, that command is from the Lord, God himself.

    There is no 'fantasy' in that statement. If one gives grudgingly, perhaps they may think so. But if one gives cheerfully and out of a heart full of love for the Lord, then they will experience the immeasurable blessings that God will pour out on them. God's plan always works whether you like it or not.

    Like the lady from Tara Plantation :smilewinkgrin:, I don't care if you tithe or not. But practicing tithing (AND offerings) has been a great blessing to our family.
     
  5. Friend of God

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    Thank you Scarlett for a well presented view of the importance of tithing. You hit the target dead-on.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    The NT church is not a storehouse.
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    I don't give to my local church to enrich my minister's pocket. He receives a decent salary and a COLA raise each year and that's it! He gets no more.

    I give to my local church so that missionaries can be send across the world and that local charities can receive help. My church give to World Hunger and homeless shelters. My church sends young men and women to seminary and sends small teams of short term mission teams all around the world. We help start other churches

    Yes, we have done "material" things like renovated our sanctuary, but it was in very pathetic shape....and we kept it simple.

    I don't understand what you mean by "making churches richer".



    If you position is not to give at least the tithe, then that is alright by me. That's your business. I don't commend you for it and I don't condemn you for it.

    But you are going to have to use another excuse other that what you used.

    In Matthew 23:23, Jesus, in a very long speech about the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, say to them that they are fixated on tithing on every single nickel and dime that they get and keeping meticulous records, but that they do not focus on the bigger spiritual matters at all.

    He goes on to say that it's commendable to tithe and to be that meticulous.....but don't leave out judgment, mercy, and faith.

    So, again, if your heart is not bent towards tithing and you don't feel that God is calling you to, then don't. That's your business.

    But don't use the NT as justification. You can't use the NT as justification.



    :tonofbricks: Would those "all areas" not include giving, too? How much you give is between you and God.

    I personally feel that if one is not giving of his first fruits to the LORD in some capacity, then his heart is not is the right place either. It's not about money.

    Tithes and offering of the first fruits are about giving back to God a portion of what He has blessed you with as a testimony that none of it belongs to you anyway and that God Almighty has blessed you.

    It isn't about accounting.

    It's about the heart's desire to glorify God.



    It's that, plus a whole lot more. :thumbs:
     
  8. drfuss

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    Scarlett O. writes:
    "In Matthew 23:23, Jesus, in a very long speech about the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, say to them that they are fixated on tithing on every single nickel and dime that they get and keeping meticulous records, but that they do not focus on the bigger spiritual matters at all.

    He goes on to say that it's commendable to tithe and to be that meticulous.....but don't leave out judgment, mercy, and faith."

    Matthew 23:23 says "You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin". They did not give money (i.e. every single nickel and dime) as tithe. Duet. 14:22-27 says the Hebrews could not give money as tithe. Just another reason why tithing is not a requirement for N.T. Christians.


    BTW, we have always given more than 10%. The problem I have with many who believe tithing is still a requirement, is that they assume those who realize tithing is not applicable to N.T. Christians, only believe that way to avoid giving 10%. Of course that is not true.
     
    #8 drfuss, Jan 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2007
  9. Scarlett O.

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    That passage had nothing to do with not tithing from your money, it said to bring of their substance.

    Faulty logic.

    These people were asked to bring a tithe of their first fruits....their substance.

    Our substance today is not grains, oil, wine, and crops.

    These people were to give from what they needed to survive.

    One of our substances today, one of the things we need to survive is our money.

    We are to use part of our money AND our time AND our talents to glorify God in simply giving it for His glory and His purposes.

    It's as act of trust to let go of some of that money.

    How much? That's between the individual and God.



    Well, I am glad that you are obeying what you feel that God wants you to do. But just as I said to another poster who doesn't even give 10%, I'm not going to commend you for it nor condemn you for it. But, if you are giving more than 10%, aren't you tithing?

    It's all your business.

    Yes, there are some tithers who believe that non-tithers don't give at all and claim "grace" as an excuse not to part with any of their money.

    I don't believe that.

    I know a handful of people who don't regularly tithe nor give offerings of any kind, but they do give sporadically.

    Basically, I don't know what the overwhelming majority (99.99%) of people at my church give at all.....and I don't care to know.

    All I wanted to do with this thread was to encourage people to seek God and give acccording as He charged them to personally.

    I admitted that I believe in tithing. I wasn't asking anyone else to, I only wanted people who don't give anything at all to consider giving something to the local church.
     
    #9 Scarlett O., Jan 12, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2007
  10. Bobby

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    From another thread same topic...
     
  11. Phillipians121

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    I agree :thumbs:

    The highlighted part I agree has more to do with TV evangelist and faith movements more than anything
     
    #11 Phillipians121, Jan 12, 2007
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  12. Phillipians121

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    Scarlett I did say that giving should be done along with giving of our spitiual gifts and witnessing. It is all included and shouldn't be seperated...which it wouldn't be if one is spirit filled. The one who only gives and nothing else is, one who is giving for the wrong reasons.

    I said that thithing isn't mentioned in the NT that giving is and only with a cheerful heart and right motive. Thithing my dear implies 10%...when in reality there should be no limit according to the NT.

    that's all.
     
  13. Servent

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    Didnt the tithe really start with Abram and Melchizedek,Abram gave him a tenth of everything before the law, why shouldnt we do the same after the law.
     
  14. drfuss

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    Scarlett O. wrutes:
    "Quote:
    Originally Posted by drfuss
    Duet. 14:22-27 says the Hebrews could not give money as tithe. Just another reason why tithing is not a requirement for N.T. Christians.


    That passage had nothing to do with not tithing from your money, it said to bring of their substance.

    Faulty logic."

    The passage says they were not to tithe with money.

    I suggest you go back and read it again. In Duet. 14: 22-27, a Hebrew who lives too far from the Place of Worship to transport his tithe there, can sell the tithe locally for money. The tithe is identified as "grain, new wine, and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks". He can carry the money to the Place of Worship and buy a replacement tithe, i.e. "cattle, sheep, wine or other formented drink or anything he wishes". Then he is to present his replacement tithe to the Lord while eating of the tithe and rejoicing.

    Notice the 22nd verse says he is to eat the tithe at the Place of Worship. I don't think they had edible money. The passage also says he is to share the tithe with others as well as the local Levites that are with him.

    Obviously, they were not allowed to give their tithe as money.
     
    #14 drfuss, Jan 12, 2007
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  15. AresMan

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    Well, you're not forced to "tithe" as you don't have a Biblical mandate to do so.
    1. Either a preacher taking verses out of context convinced you of this, or
    2. You feel that the amount of 10% from your net/gross/gross+benefits/etc. income is a worthy means of committed giving and helps with budgeting.

    A contextual definition of tithes and offerings would help to avoid confusion.
    Tithes in the context of Malachi 3:8 were the tri-annual heaps brought into the temple storehouse set up by Hezekiah to feed the Levites and poor, of which the priests were not bringing from the people into the storehouse.
    Offerings in the context of Malachi 3:8 were altar offerings of polluted bread and blemished beasts performed by the priests in the temple that were not pleasing to God.

    But remember, the tithe was a command that had severe consequences for lack of obedience. If the tithe is "in effect," then there should be no choosing about it.

    Here is the flaw: the church is not the "storehouse." The temple was the storehouse for the tri-annual heap tithes. There is no assumption in the Bible that a local church has any storehouse chambers/treasury, nor is there any assumption that a local church has an associated building at all. Assuming a parallel between the Jewish temple and the local church (and assuming a building) has no basis in Scripture.

    I agree. I give a lot to charity. I have given thousands to charity.

    I agree. I give a lot to my local church. Just for the record, I most often exceed a so-called tithe (assuming one of today's flawed definition of a "tithe"). I am not a tightwad.

    Since you attempt to use Scripture to justify an income "tithe" as the basis for giving, you are bound to get a debate or a discussion.
     
  16. AresMan

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    Amen!

    Amen!

    This passage is taken out of context. Just previous to this verse, there is a curse pronounced already on those who were not tithing. If you are going to use this verse to "encourage" an "optional" or "recommended" "tithe", then you have to deal with the fact that it is a command with a curse. Either the whole applies or none at all.

    Here is the context of Malachi 3:10:
    Now, if you want to suggest that someone prayerfully consider committing to giving 10% of the net/gross/gross+benefits/etc. paycheck to a local church, then that is fine, but not based on this verse, because it would be used out of context.

    This verse is referencing the firstfruits law (which is not the same thing as the tithe). The firstfruits was a small portion of harvest that was placed in a basket and presented to a priest as a dedication to the Lord. (Deu 26:1-11) That person would then eat it himself and his household, and share it with others. The purpose of both the tithe and the firstfruits were to keep the people in remembrance of the God Who have such to them, not to toss the whole in a plate and not use any of it personally.

    Amen.

    Amen. We don't actually "give to God," but I agree with the premise that this verse encourages unfettered joyful giving, and that cheerful givers will be blessed beyond measure in some way.

    I agree with the general intent, but believe that some verses were taken out of context.

    Amen. Agree. Yet tithing has nothing to do with this.

    I guess I'll find out when the year is up. :)
     
  17. Alcott

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    I suppose so. Before the law, Abram set his armed men onto the region around Canaan, killed the people and took their possessions [spoils], then gave a tenth of the spoils to a local priest. So... let's find the region to in and kill the people, take the spoils, then look up a local priest and give him a tenth of what we scavenge. Will that satisfy you?
     
  18. mcdirector

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    Maybe it would be better if we just gave back to God out of the abundance of what He's given to us ;)
     
  19. Servent

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    The point is that Abram gave to the priest of the most high God (Genesis 14:18) before there was a law, by the way verse 20 say"s "and blessed be God Most High who has delivered your enemies into your hand."
    Yes that whould satisfy me.
     
    #19 Servent, Jan 19, 2007
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  20. Mexdeaf

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    Problem is...

    It isn't ME you have to satisfy.

    Whether you tithe or not is between you and HIM.

    Personally I think those that don't at least tithe are missiing out on a blessing. But that is MHO.
     

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