Which do you hold to?

This reminds me of reading the website for that big mega SBC church in California. For worship you can choose 7 different venues, including a Yoga venue where you can stretch while you worship, a heavy metal venue where all the headbangers can worship, even a night club venue complete with tables with tableclothes and candles where you can dine as you worship. And a singles venue where you can hook up with a date while you worship.

Since the Bible doesn't prescribe such distractions I would say they are unbiblical. Simply "seeker sensitive" ministry is going too far in this case.

In my opinion, the message of the gospel is the most serious message a person will ever hear, and it should be treated with respect and not turned into a social affair.

So I would say that I am definately in the Regulative Principles camp.

john

 

Regulative Principle.

It should be self-explanatory but I know a lot of folks don't get it, and from previous bouts around this subject I know I'm wasting my time promoting it.

 

Normative. Of course, I am a liberal after all.

However, I also subscribe to scripture that says "in everything moderation". So I'm thinking yoga and heavy metal, might not fall into that catagory.

 

As much as the regulative principle would seem to give us assurance we are doing the right thing, I don't think there is any way to actually apply it without going to obviously unreasonble extremes, (no pews, no carpet, no AC, No neck-ties, Definitly no instruments...).

I read an article on the Regulative principle by John frame, who claims to hold to the regulative principle, but as he explained his reasoning, it was clear that he really held to more of a Normative principle.

However, I do like his reasoning which goes basically like this: We should seek, in corporate worship and our lives, to ACTIVELY OBEY scripture rather than simply AVOID DISOBEYING IT. In Acts, it is said they had teaching, fellowship, breaking of the bread, and prayer. Singing a prayer to God would be an active application of the command to pray, even singing with a piano or guitar.

I would like to hear how someone who holds to a regulative principle determines why some modern inventions (like carpet, hymnals, microphones) would be allowed while others (pianos...etc) would not. would not the allowance of any of these actually make you a normative person?

 

I believe in the regulative principle until I find something I want to do, then I believe in the normative principle. :tongue3:

Seriously, I am more of a normative principle pastor.

 

Regulative principle.

 

I guess I'm more normative.

 

Since I enjoy reading Frame as well, I think your post raises an excellent point.

I think the issue--and application of the Regulative Principle--deals more with the substance of the worship service, not the accoutrements that aid in the service itself.

I tend to apply both principles and I tend to do so based on thinking through the substance of the worship service and the things that aid conveying that substance (ie. microphones, instruments, etc.).

Also, I think those who apply the Regulative Principle in a hyper- way are missing the point when they seek to outlaw pianos, other instruments, pews, music written after AD 100, etc.

The point of the Regulative Principle is to make sure the substance of the worship service accords with Scripture. I do not believe the Regulative Principle should be applied to keep the church in the Dark Ages.

After all, it is a real possibility that one can have all of the substance of a hyper-applied Regulative Principle (no pews, no instruments, no carpet, no microphones, etc.) and miss the scriptural and spiritual substance of the Principle itself.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Offering time! Acts 4:34-35

No plates or lock box.
The procedure was to lay your money at the preachers feet!

 

Yeah, but did they have AIDS and Hepetitis and Hong Kong flu to spread around?

John

 

I didn't think this out very well before when I said I was regulative. I immediately thought of the extreme examples of the liberal seeker sensitive church today and didn't even consider the traditional worship service.

So now, I'd have to say that I am normative, but with some very conservative limits.:thumbsup:

John

 

Yes I know Jesus would have made provisions, but I am just saying that this is why it is not practical for us today.

And yeah, I was serious:smilewinkgrin:

John

 

I am late in getting here on this discussion, this has been a busy few days.

I hold to the regulative principles. However, let me note that there is a distinction between elements (which is regulated) and instruments and circumstances of worship (which, generally speaking) are not regulated.

For instance, offering plates and communion cups would fall under instruments of worship. They are used to help to utilize the elements.

Yet, I believe the regulative principles is to worship God in how he has commanded. We cannot improve on God's commands.

 

Ok, How would someone who holds to the regulative principle determine scripturally what is an "Element" of worship, as opposed to what is a "instrument, or Circumstance."?

How would your reasoning apply to:
-Announcements?
-Offering time?
-Other examples?
-musical instuments or styles?