Which Koran are we quoting?

I don't hang around much with any crowd and, in general, I try to run in the opposite direction.

 

You certainly had a different experience than others have had, Christians I know who fled Lebanon. And different from that of Brigitte Gabriel who says:

http://americancongressfortruth.com/

 

So you want some honesty do you? Well try these links on for size and see just how much truth you really want:


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/644554/posts

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/ch...history/crusades_canerchristianjihad0505.aspx

"Dr. Ergun Caner: I was a Muslim for half my life, until I was almost twenty. The only thing I ever learned about Christianity I learned from my Imam and the scholars in the mosque. Then when I began to be trained in Madras we heard even more about Christians, that they are our enemies. I would guess that the key word that we would call the Americans was the Crusaders. Right after the bombing of 9/11, when the first bin Ladin tape was released, he called us Crusaders. The Fatwa that was signed February 23rd, 1998 referred to us as the Crusaders. This is because from our world mindset -- one side of my family is Wahabi, the other side is Sunni Orthodox -- this is fundamental to understanding how they view America."






http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=027454a783c841250ba7


We have an apologist for the murderous Islam for sure.

 

OBTW, about my earlier post - here is a history of jihad (struggle):

http://historyofjihad.org/sitemap.html

And this is about the Third Jihad:

http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/Muslims-Migration-Third-Attack-Europe.htm

From the website:
Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims -

http://www.islam-watch.org

 

Do you have a sound byte for what a Crusader sounds like?

Technically speaking, the Crusades were started by muslims warring to take over non-muslim lands. Of course, history revisionists, islamic apologists, and the elite always throw the Crusades into every debate about islam (also known in debating tactics as a straw man, or red herring, and finally the old poisoning the well ploy), as if it were the other way around and the Crusaders were the aggressors against muslims.

Good night. I'm outta here for now. Big day tomorrow. :sleeping_2:

 

I am not aware of any official Christian countries where people are governed by Christianity and where Christianity is the official state religion.

 

Official starte religion or not, there has never been a nation in history that has been a true Christian theocracy under God except for Israel itself. And there never will be until the Millennial Kingdom. To this day, England has a state church--the Church of England, but that doesn't make England a Christian nation. It is not. Far from it. If there was any nation at the present time that needs missionaries it would be England. We live in a time where famous old churches in London are now being turned into mosques. Britain is secular and humanistic (like America), but certainly not Christian.

Because nations have state-religions it makes them no more Christian than the devil himself. There is no such thing, nor ever will be as a "Christian" nation.

 

Agreed.

So when do you start? Being honest, that is.

Misrepresenting what the Koran says is hardly honest.

 

Of course, it's all our fault.

What else is new?

Maybe they should try to just, you know, get over it.

Of course, I'm not real happy with the foreign policy of middle eastern nations, either. It seems to be a little too centered around killing "infidels", but if no "infidels" are handy, muslims seem to be more than happy to kill each other.

 

The New Oxford Dictionary defines infidel to mean "a person who has no religion or whose religion is not that of the majority, adhering to a religion other than that of the majority" and explains that "The word originally denoted a person of a religion other than one's own, specifically a Muslim (to a Christian), a Christian (to a Muslim), or a Gentile (to a Jew)."

The New Oxford Thesaurus gives sysnonoms for infidel to include "unbeliever, disbeliever, non-believer, heathen, pagan, idolater, idolatress, heretic, agnostic, atheist, nihilist, apostate, freethinker, libertine, dissenter, nonconformist"

Wikipedia, an open user edited but often reliable source, defines infidel to mean "In Islam, the Arabic word kafir (كافر) refers to a person who denies Allah or the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It can also refer to non-Muslims, often in a derogatory sense, and is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "unbeliever"."

So, when advocates of radical Islamic ideas mention "infidels", they are referring to us Christians - among others - with an enmity that's not beyond real violence. The only "special status" we have with these advocates is their deep desire to crush not only our person but also our belief.

 

The whole concept of "hate crimes" is nothing more than an attempt by a small minority of people to use the federal government to further usurp the power of the state and the people. There's no reason for something that's a "crime" by state law to be elevated to a "hate crime" just so that in can fall under the jurisdiction of federal law. The acts of the child involved do not consitute a crime much less a "hate crime"!

Regardless, rudeness never was and should not be regulated by state or federal law. If that is incorrect, then there are many areas of our society that should be corrected perhaps being with the domain most frequented by politicians. It may not be good conduct but we just don't need any level of government sticking their nose into the matter. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. or Christians need not be given the force of law to act against rudeness. Government's role, with respect to individual misconduct, is to react to crimes of serious nature for the sake of providing a system of justice that individuals should not undertake for their own vengeance. It's purpose is not to regulate the thoughts, conversations, and ordinary squabbles between people whether good or bad. It's a dangerous step in the on-going trend to regulate everything minor while ignoring the major duties of government.

John Adams said: "This form of government ... is productive of everything which is great and excellent among men. But its principles are as easily destroyed as human nature is corrupted. ... A government is only to be supported by pure religion of austere morals. Private and public virtue is the only foundation of republics."

I'm certain that similar acts of rudeness against Christians would not be met with same response. In fact, it's obvious that the government is being used in a hostile manner towards the practice of Christianity by its consistent attempts to forcefully remove all evidence and practice of Christianity from public view using a misinterpretation of the first and fourteenth amendments that's evolved over the last fifty years. This modern trend replaced about one hundred fifty years of relative common sense not including the several hundred years prior during which the fundamentals of our nation were being developed.

 

I completely disagree with the sentiment of these statements!

We have most certainly not been "oppressing them" or any other nation on earth. The turth is the very opposite of that! America certainly has its faults but oppressing other nations is not one of them. We've consistently come to the aide of oppressed people around the world because it's been in our national interests to do so and because we care about what happens to others in this world.

No other nation has done that to the extent nor cost - blood and money - that America has. There are times when the details might be debated but the intents should be clear from the evidence of two centuries. Others have expanded their empires, plundered the conquered territories, and enslaved people under dictators, tyrants, and communists. We have remained a model of hope for representative government that fosters individual liberty, prosperity, pursuit of happiness, and, most of all, freedom of religion.

Any other deduction is a completely narrowly focused or blinded view of history sympathetic of the views of opposing forces.

I'm sure there are many people of the Islamic faith around the world who desire the benefits of the aforementioned model but yet prefer to keep their faith and also are not actively seeking to kill every Christian on the face of the earth. It's not our charter much less within our ability to make them become Christians. Only the Holy Spirit can convict a person to recognize their salvation and only the Lord can choose them. I'm certain among this false religion there are extremes of practice ranging from indifference to radical. The most radical are the ones that pose the initial threat.

That, however, does not take away from the message embodied in the Koran and exhibited by the conduct of some many of the nations centered around Islamic law.

The Holy Bible records: "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." (Romans 5:10) and "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4). In this matter I apply it mean that Allah and his followers are enemies of God and I need to be very careful as to how "friendly" I become with his followers.

There is room for co-existence on this planet with some degree of tolerance in the interest of temporal peace. We are, however, fools if we believe that further importing this "peaceful" religion into our land will not bring about the same types of problems being experienced between peoples of areas such as the Middle East.

God may eventually choose not to continue the many blessings He has given our if He finds that we have, as a whole, fallen away and become consumed by belief in false gods. That is what we should fear most of all!

 

Yes, of course - self control and identity. Tell that to the 10s of thousands of children and women who have their genitals mutilated. Tell that to the thousands of women who are killed in "honor" killings---some even happening in islamic communities in the west (Europe). Tell that to women who were forced to cover themselves from head to toe in burqas and forced to beg in order to feed their children under hard-line Taliban/Sharia law in Afghanistan. Tell that to the children who were abducted and killed in Afghanistan to have their organs sold on the black market, or to the young boys who were victims of pedophilia from the Taliban. Tell that to the children who are forced into islamic slavery and prostitution in muslim countries, even as we speak. Tell that to those poor Christian saints, pastors, and missionaries who have had their villages burned and their families slaughtered by machetes in Africa by roving islamic groups out to destroy infidels. Tell that to the tribal children abducted by muslims in Africa who are fed drugs and trained to slaughter innocent villagers with AK-47s shouting allah akbar.

(Warning: Some material in the following link is true, but graphic.)

http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/

True followers of mohammed denigrate and abuse women and children.

In fact, it is Christianity, Jesus Christ Himself, Who elevated women and children to not be treated like dogs. It is in the Judeo-Christian countries that there are such things as child labor laws.

You have convinced me by now that no matter how many links are posted on this thread regarding the historical and present day facts about islam, no matter how many times you are shown what is really written in the quran, you will continue to defend islam. You have been shown from your own source that what has been written in the quran is undeniable. Yet, you continue to defend or make excuses for what is in the quran and for the muslim religion. We have gone full circle with you, as with other islamic apologists who have been here on the BB, (the usual arguments are the Crusades, Oklahoma City, abortion clinic bombings, KKK, and finally, how everything wrong with islamic countries is because of the foreign policy of the United States or Israel. Last but not least, is the usual charge that is leveled against those who dare speak the truth - hate speech and the B word (bigot). We have heard it all before and it has all been posted on these forums before.)

Up until now, you have been given some laxity here on this board to state your case and you have been given the opportunity to debate - but defending islam - which is clearly anti-Christianity - is against the board rules, the board rules which you agreed to when you joined here. This is not the right board to serve as a forum to defend islamic beliefs, or the "peaceful religion" mantra, or what is written in the quran, so therefore, this thread is now being closed.


As a final point, I would like to state that it is our Christian responsibility to not only speak the truth about islam and all false religions and ideologies, but also to pray for those (especially in the 10/40 window) who are entrapped, ensnared, and destined to an eternal hell without Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that many might continue to come to a saving knowledge of Him, the TRUE God, the Son of the Living God.

God is doing great things in these areas of the world through the Jesus Film Project, thru SAT-7 Christian satellite television, and other areas - people are being saved, healed, and ex-muslims are willing to die and are being killed and tortured for Jesus Christ. Oh that those of us who are not persecuted may be found as faithful and true.

May we all, who have blessed with the truth and with freedom, be found faithful to Him and continue to support these mission efforts through our financial support and prayers. It is not His will that any should perish but that all should come to repentence.

Pray for the persecuted Christians

http://www.persecution.org

http://www.opendoors.org

Amen?

Lady Eagle,
Moderator