Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Brother Bob, Mar 13, 2006.

  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
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    But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    "38": For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    "39": And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    "40": Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    "41": Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    [​IMG] Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left?
     
  2. Deacon

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    It's taking about catastrophe.
    Who was saved? ...the one God chose to take away from it.

    Rob
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

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    Later this week, I will discuss on this depth, what Christ actual saying. Because I have to do errands today.

    There is so much misunderstanding about 'left', what Christ was actual talking about.

    We notice famous popular novel series books - "Left Behind" at Christian Bookstores, also, public bookstores like, Borders, etc. Tim LaHaye inteprets 'left' represents people who will miss rapture, will be left on earth to face seven year of tribulation period.

    There are so much misunderstanding what 'the other left' is talking about. This is speak of faithful servants.

    Why I understand what Christ was talking about in this passage, 'the other left' is speak of faithful servants, later this week, I will explaining more deep on this with verses, what Christ actual saying.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  4. guitarpreacher

    guitarpreacher
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    The one who is left is the one who is saved.
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    I think Guitarpreacher is on to something. Remember, the context is a post-tribulational setting, not a pre-trib rapture. Whether you're pre- or post-, when Jesus returns in Matthew 24, He stays. The saints aren't going anywhere.

    Tom B.
     
  6. Me4Him

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    In the rapture, (day of Christ)

    "Jesus reaps" the "saved" from the earth,

    the "unsaved" remain behind for the trib.


    When Jesus returns, (Day of the Lord)

    the "angel reaper" gather the "unsaved" and cast them into hell,

    the "Saved" remain behind for the MK.

    These "reaping" are "Opposite" of the other.
     
  7. eloidalmanutha

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    Actually, Luke gives us a clearer statement:

    Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

    The taken are the dead or lost = body that is eaten by eagels/vultures
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    It is clear that the ones taken in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are indeed the lost.

    One account says the flood 'destroyed them all' and the other says the flood 'took them all away.'

    So, in these scriptures to be taken away means to be destroyed. We know this because it was the wicked who were 'taken away' in the days of Noe.
     
  9. Scarlett O.

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    Let me just throw this out for thought.

    If the ones "taken" are the lost, then what is Jesus referring to in verse 31 when he says to his disciples...??

    my paraphrasing here...

    "...on that day if you are outside, don't go back inside to get earthly possessions....if you are in the fields, don't go back to the house anything...."

    That sounds to me like they would be in anticipation of "going somewhere" with Jesus.
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

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    Scarlett O.,

    I think you speak of this from Matt. 24:15-21. This passagge have do nothing with "taken" or "left" either. This passage is talk about warning about horrible persecution, do not back to their place to get things, or soldier/police will catch us and get killed(martyred). That why, Christ warns us, do not back to our place to get things, we must flee away from our place, because we shall know horrible persecution is about to coming anytime.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

    I need go to sleep now! [​IMG]
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    I ask several theologians this same question and ony one said "the left were the saved". The answer is "like the days of Noah, when the flood came and took them unawares". Therefore, those that are taken are the lost and those left behind are the saved. Thanks for your answers.
     
  12. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    This question relates to those who are given a
    choice AFTER they see the Son of Man appear in
    the clouds.

    Neither the one taken nor one left belongs to the Body or Bride of Christ. For "every believer will be raised up on the last day" before Christ
    appears and the "tribes of earth mourn". John 6:40; Matt.24:30.

    The UNbeliever who "remembers Lot's wife" but
    recognizes he deserves ("is willing") to die
    will be "kept alive" (preserved). Luke 17:33.

    Every one who is "left" will be "praying to
    escape all these things and to prevail to
    stand before the Son of Man". Luke 21:36.

    The time-context for this final "choice" is
    between the "gathering of the elect from earth
    to heaven" by Jesus in the days after the great
    tribulaton (Mark 13:24-27) and the "gathering
    of these elect out of the 4 winds by the angels from all the extremities of the heavenS". Matt.24:31.

    That is the short period during which no one
    will have time to "come down off the housetop
    or return home from the field or the mill".

    The potential number of the "tribes of earth"
    who "mourn and pray to escape" is from 50 to
    500 million Arabs alone!! They are the ones
    of whom Zech.14:16 states will be "left of
    the nations who must come to Jerusalem to
    worship the Lord". See Rev.15:4 also.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    No, these people were "as in the days of Noah" comparing them to who would be taken in their sins when Christ comes.

    You better already have your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life before Christ comes. [​IMG]
     
  14. SBGrace

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    The one that is taken is the spiritual man... The one that is left is the carnal man..... Romans chapter 7.... Most notably in verse 25......

    Also, in these verses……. John 3:6 that which is of the flesh is flesh and that which is of the spirit is spirit....

    You know that the flesh will go back to the dust of the earth but the spirit will go back to God who gives it... For flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.... therefore there are no condemnation to those that walk after the spirit and not the flesh.....For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but those after the spirit, things of the spirit... The flesh lusteth against the spirit....

    8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    Gal. 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

    Gal. 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    SB Grace, you make the same mistake as most who make a "quick read" of this scripture, thinking that it means they are taken to Heaven but it says "as in the days of Noah THE FLOOD CAME AND TOOK THEM UNAWARES". That is what is going to happened to the sinner he will come at an hour they think not or death will befall them in their sins.
    I agree with everything you say and all the scriptures except they do not apply to this parable.
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    The just are taken; the unjust left.
    "Just' is a Christ function, those who are just
    are made just by Messian Jesus (i.e. the saved).

    Matthew 24:38-39

    38": For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating
    and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day
    that Noe entered into the ark,
    "39": And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away
    so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    This simile compares the coming of the Lord
    and when Noah was spared the flood:

    Several comparisions

    1. those left behind are seperated from those taken
    2. in Noah's day the just were taken
    3. things were going along as normal, then BAP! - judgement
    4. the punishment in the judgement was being LEFT BEHIND.

    Now Jesus could have used the example of Daniel and the lion's den.
    There Daniel was kept by the power of God through the night
    in the face of the hungry lions. But Jesus chose a comparison
    to Noah.

    SIMILE - a figure of speach in which two unlike
    things are explicitly compared (uses 'as' or 'like')

    METAPHOR - a figure of speach in which two unlike
    things are emplicitly compared (does not use 'as' or 'like')

    Tom Butler: //I think Guitarpreacher is on to something. Remember,
    the context is a post-tribulational setting,
    not a pre-trib rapture. Whether you're pre- or post-,
    when Jesus returns in Matthew 24, He stays. The saints aren't going anywhere.//

    That isn't the context.

    StandingfirminChrist: //It is clear that the ones taken
    in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are indeed the lost.//

    It isn't very clear to you, as you have come to a meaning
    of the words contradictory to logic AND God's meaning.
    In Noah's day the unjust were left behind to face the
    judgement of the flood.

    In Luke's version of the Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) of Jesus,
    not only is Noah mentioned, Lot is mentioned for comparison.
    In Lots case Lot was taken out of Sodom before those LEFT BEHIND
    in Sodom were destroyed. Jesus could have used the three Hebrew
    children who were kept THROUGH the fire but he chose Lot who
    was TAKEN OUT of danger and those LEFT BEHIND were judged/destroyed.

    The Tribulation period that happens after the Rapture
    is a period of Judgement - the unjust are LEFT BEHIND.

    Brother Bob: //I ask several theologians this same question and ony one
    said "the left were the saved". The answer is "like the
    days of Noah, when the flood came and took them unawares".
    Therefore, those that are taken are the lost
    and those left behind are the saved. Thanks for your answers.//

    Tee hee. gooy logic ;)

    Remins me of a joke:

    The State Sub-director of Mental Facilities in the State of
    Oklahoma working right under the Director of Oklahoma Human Resources (DOHR)
    desided to visit the Mental Facility in Norman, Ok and see if
    some of the residents really need to be there. So he developed a
    'quick and dirty' test. He got three 'clients' together
    in a recreational area at a table.

    The Sub-director asked the first one: what is 2+2?
    The client said "5".
    The Sub-director marked down next to his name: "retain".

    The Sub-director asked the second one: what is 2+2?
    The client said "Purple"
    The Sub-director marked down next to his name: "RETAIN!"

    THe Sub-director asked the third one: what is 2+2?
    The client said "Four"
    The Sub-director tryed a defining question:
    How did you come up with that?
    "Well" said the third client "I figured both the first two
    guys were about half-right so I added them together and divided
    by 2 and voila! I get the answer'4'" ;)
     
  17. Ed Edwards

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    In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
    ask three questions:

    (in the order asked):
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    3. What is the sign of the end of age?

    Jesus answers these questions in
    Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
    some parables.

    Here are the answers of Jesus in the
    order the questions were asked:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    Here is a summary of the answers
    in the order in which events will occur:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Soon, it was in 70AD

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    No signs preceeding the end of the age

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    The Sign of His coming will be the
    Tribulation period.


    Recall the Greek language in which this
    Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
    did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
    So many ands, buts, and other connectors
    give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
    (in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
    instead of an outline. This is most noticable
    in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
    I believe the major outline to be:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
    Rapture/resurrection which ends the
    current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
    last days, etc.)

    Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
    church age even up to this time.
    Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
    The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
    that the church age continues.
     
  18. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    Ed,

    I really feel like being weary out on you. You always saying Matt. 24:31, as you separated verse 31 from verse 29-30. That is against Hermenuetic rule - Intepreting in Contextually. You know better than that.

    Also, PLEASE PROVED ME HOW DO YOU KNOW MATT 24:31 IS "PRETRIB RAPTURE"??

    suppose, you saying Matt. 24:31 is pretrib rapture, then I ask you, can you EASILY see TWO COMINGS anywhere in the context of Matthew chapter 24???

    To be honest with you, I do not see two comings anywhere in Matthew chapter 24. Christ spoken of this chapter about second coming at the end of the age, only ONE coming.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I note that Matthew 24 does not teach
    the Doctrine of the Trinity (DOT). Does that make
    the DOT false, of course not.

    Deafposttrib: //Also, PLEASE PROVED ME HOW DO YOU KNOW MATT 24:31 IS "PRETRIB RAPTURE"??//

    I just did, in the post before yours.

    Nevertheless, here is an earlier writing.
    Matthew 24 fits with the other passages
    of the Bible:
    --------------------------------
    Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection event
    2. Tribulation time
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
    5. new heaven & new earth

    The time line according to Matthew 24
    (Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
    Mark 13, Luke 21):

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    Matthew 24:4-15

    1. rapture/resurrection event
    Matthew 24:31-44

    2. Tribulation time
    Matthew 24:21-28

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    Matthew 24:29-30)

    Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
    (4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    The time line according to Revelation:

    0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 &lt;== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection event - Rev 4:1 (type)
    2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
    4. literal MK=millennial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
    5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

    The time line according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

    0. church age continues &lt;== you are here!
    (implied, until the falling away)

    1. rapture/resurrection
    v.1 - gathering together unto him
    v.3 - falling away

    2. Tribulation time
    (time of the man of sin)

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    v.8

    Not mentioned:
    (4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    BTW, I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
    before i saw these three scriptures as pretrib.
    So even if you can prove all three of these scriptures
    in error, I'll still hope in the pre-tribulation rapture
    as will 90% of Baptists and kindred Christians.
    ------------------------------
     
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Consider just one sign (from Matthew 24:4-14) that
    the church age continues:

    --------------------------------------

    Matthew 24:14 (HCSB):

    This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed
    in all the world as a testimony to all nations.
    And then the end will come.



    Items quoted from THE ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD,
    1991-1992 Edition (Tyndale, 1990), page 305+.

    61AD - Colossians 1:6 (HCSB):
    the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit
    and growing all over the world, just as it has
    among you since the day you heard it and recognized
    God's grace in the truth.

    c. 140AD - Hermas writes: "The Son of God ... has
    been preached to the ends of the earth" (Shepherd
    of Hermas).

    197AD - Tertullian (c160-222) ... writes ... "There
    is no nation indeed which is not Christian" ...

    c. 205AD - Clement of Alexandria (c155-215) ... writes
    "The whole world, with Athens and Greece, has already
    become the domain of the Word."

    c. 310 - Eusebius of Caesarea (c265-339) writes ...
    ""The doctrine of the Savious
    has irradiated the whole Oikumene
    (whole inhabited earth)"

    378 - Jerome (c345-419) writes: "From India to Britian, all
    nations resound with the death and resurrection of CHrist".
    estimates 1.9 million Christians to have been marytred
    since AD33 (out of 120 million Christians). ...

    etc.
    ---------------------------------

    Even today, not everybody has the words
    of the Scripture in a language they can read.
    Others are not allowed to read the Holy Bible
    on penalty of torture or death.
    This is a continuing sign that the
    Gentile Age (AKA: time of the Gentiles,
    Church Age, Age of Grace, etc) continues
     

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