Which Party's policys are likely to increase the number of abortions?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Matt Black, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    First, some interests to declare:

    1. I am not a US citizen. I have no vote next month. Nevertheless, the decision you guys make has a profound impact on the rest of the world, including the little island off the north-west coast of Europe I call home; thus, in my view, I am allowed at least to comment as opposed to voting.

    2. I am pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever you want to call it. But I am pro-the whole of life, not just the nine months of it before birth. I am however in favour of policies which are likely to reduce rather than increase the number of abortions both in your country and in mine which may or may not include criminalising abortion.

    3. I accept - reluctantly - that an outright ban on abortions is unrealistic in our respective countries probably in my lifetime, although a lowering of the numbering of weeks at which abortion becomes illegal may not be.

    4. I also read with interest - and sometimes participate in - the various threads which touch upon and concern this subject, particularly with regard to the forthcoming Presidential election. I try to imagine the dilemmas faced by you on this subject, bearing in mind that abortion in the UK is not the polarised party-political issue that it seems to be on your side of the Pond.

    So...the dominant thinking on these boards appears to be that a vote for the Democrats is a vote for more abortions whereas a vote for the Republicans is the opposite. But I'm not convinced it's as straightforward as that...

    From what I can gather, Democrats are more likely to increase funding for abortion clinics. This, I agree is a Bad Thing and is likely to increase the number of abortions.

    However, Republicans are more likely to reduce funding for poorer sections of the community, for example in this vote. This - experience and stats suggest - will have the effect of making abortions in such poorer sections of society more likely, since women who are pregnant are more likely to resort to abortion if they will be unable to afford the child; thus the number of 'unwanted' pregnancies will increase and so will the consequent number of abortions, as surely as night follows day. This, I say, is likewise a Bad Thing therefore.

    Now, some here may say, "Well, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place." Maybe. But why have the unborn child bear the punishment for the alleged sin of the parents? I've used 'maybe' and 'alleged' here advisedly, as we need to consider one or two scenarios other than the stereotypical 'feckless immoral single mom':

    1. Married couple - three existing children. Husband main or sole breadwinner, so not in receipt of welfare. They try - successfully - to conceive a fourth child as on husband's wage they can afford this. Husband then loses job due to recession. Welfare benefit cuts by Republicans mean they can't really afford their three pre-existing children, let alone a fourth.

    2. The same couple but husband loses job before they try for a fourth. They use contraception. It fails and wife becomes pregnant.

    That'll do for starters. This is why I said on another thread re Dems and Reps 'a plague on both their houses'. I don't envy you your choice next month...
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    You do not know what you are talking about. You do not kn ow what goes on around the country or who will end funding for anything.

    However, when you create policies that remove personal responsibility from the equation then where does that end. Liberals do not like personal responsibility. Liberals want to remove all personal responsibility, sometimes for pragmatic like reasons and others for ....well just because they are liberals and can't understand anything else.

    Bottom line is liberals want to do all the wrong things to fix problems. They want people to rely on government to fix things they will not stand on their own to do. They just want more government control. True Americans reject this. We reject Marxism. We want people to stand on their own to feet. Temporary assistance is fine but America is only strong when people are self sufficient. That is what made America strong. Anything else will send us the way of Greece and Spain.

    Anything else is not well thought out.
     
  3. Matt Black

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    Are you saying the link to the House vote is inaccurate, then?

    In an ideal world, I would agree with you on the whole personal responsibility point. But we don't live in such a world, but a fallen one. I am interested in policies which will see the number of abortions cut, and I don't see that House vote achieving that, but the opposite, which is why I condemn it.

    I note you haven't said how you would address the married couple's situation...

    And what about those Americans who cannot (not won't but can't) be self-sufficient: those who have lost their jobs, those who are ill, injured, too old? Your post assumes that all are self-sufficient, but many are not.
     
    #3 Matt Black, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2012
  4. Revmitchell

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    I am not going to address every point. And there is no excuse (fallen world or anything else) for supporting policies that promote a lack of personal responsibility. There are not enough ta dollars to deal with that and it tears down a country.

    The answer is to look else where to resolve these issues not promote what is causing them.
     
  5. Matt Black

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    In my view, the only thing that is going to address the root cause is the love and knowledge of the Lord, not programs or legislation. PLus maybe raising awareness/ education about abortion and sex ed (which the Republicans also wish to cut). Without the Holy Spirit, people - young and not so young - are going to act in an immoral fashion with the inevitable consequences, whatever any government does or does not do. The real issue for me is what then happens to the resulting unborn child; I for one would gladly pay more £s in tax if I knew that as a result fewer children were aborted than would otherwise be the case - as a follower of Jesus I am not sure I could sleep easily in my bed otherwise...
     
  6. targus

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    Food stamps have increased fourfold under Obama.

    When you have people driving luxury cars and wearing designer clothes...

    Selling food stamps for 25 cents on the dollar for cash...

    To buy the latest cell phone...

    Then more food stamps are being passed out than are truly needed.

    In such a circumstance reducing spending on food stamps is not cruel or uncaring.

    Try to look at the actual underlying facts rather than simply having a knee jerk reaction.
     
  7. Salty

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    Dont forget, cell phone companies are passing out free cell phones to the"poor" some of whom have gotten dozens and sold them......
    (look on your phone bill for the charge the Feds mandate to "pay" for this program
     
  8. Matt Black

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    Alright, humour me for a moment then - let's suppose that cutting welfare payments will involve people falling into hardship. Let's consider the family referred to in my OP - what would you say to them?
     
  9. Ed B

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    It is good to get an objective view from outside. I agree that we are very unlikely to see abortion outlawed in our lifetime. Frankly, while I have supported the GOP candidate since I was able to vote, there is been no appreciable change for the better even when the GOP controlled the white house and both chambers of congress. That disappoints me.

    Still, there are deal-breaker issues that the Democratic Party whole-heartedly supports that I cannot endorse. But that does not mean I buy everything that the Republicans are selling.

    One of the unfortunate consequences of our dramatic partisan divide on the abortion issue and the sanctity of marriage is that the GOP has our vote on the cheap and they know it. Some of my Christian brothers and sisters squint real hard in an effort to believe because the GOP says the right things regarding abortion and marriage then they must be the "good" party and correct on most every other issue.



     
  10. Revmitchell

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    Also Ann has rightly pointed out in another thread that there is not a need to provide contraceptives to women. They are easily obtained and the poor have programs already in place to get them. What is going on in the US is the far extreme left wing Marxist liberals are wanting them free for all women. There is not a need for this.

    Liberals do not want to do anything for themselves. They are the laziest people in the world.
     
  11. targus

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    Again, you need to consider underlying facts and not just have a knee jerk reaction.

    If funding for food stamps is reduced not all would have the same experience.

    What would happen instead is guidelines for who should and should not receive food stamps would be better followed.

    Someone in true need would not be cut off - but those who are not in true need would be cut off (I hope anyway).

    There have been a rash of stories in the news lately about people who accept welfare and food stamps and have won the lottery big - yet continue to accept the government dole.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    By the way programs are already in place for the married couple.
     
  13. Matt Black

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    Do you mean contraceptive programs or welfare programs?

    This thread isn't really about the availability of contraception - MP's thread is - but about the best thing to do for the children both born and unborn when things - either through no fault of their parents or even when the parents are grossly irresponsible - go wrong. Increasing funding for abortions is the wrong answer. But so is pushing already poor families further into poverty.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Then you have lost me. What do you want the US to do in this area?
     
  15. targus

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    Who is pushing poor families further into poverty?

    Why this relentless thoughtless knee jerk reaction?
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    I am also trying to figure this out.
     
  17. Matt Black

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    Be truly pro-life - the same as I want the UK
     
  18. Matt Black

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    Welfare cuts - see the link in the OP

    Why the failure to address the points?
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    Ok I need some specifics for clarity here. What specifically do you want the US to do in this area that would make you agree with us.
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    There is no link in the op.
     

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