Which Seminaries Have Programs in "Biblical Medicine"?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by RandR, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. RandR

    RandR
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    I've been looking at various websites, and I can't seem to find a seminary that offers courses or degrees in "Biblical Medicine." The Bible makes some unequivocal statements about God and healing...but I haven't been able to find the seminary programs.

    The Vioxx verdict this week called to mind several concerns I have about our current health-care system and structure in the U.S...

    * All medical doctors must take biology, chemistry, and physics classics that teach a secular, humanistic, evolutionary view of the earth's beginnings in order to get their degree and be "licensed" by the state.

    * Medical doctors take loads and loads of classes in the "hard sciences" wherin the scientific method is taught and practiced, leaving no place for the Supernatural. Christians clearly belive in the supernatural, but even those medical shchools that are associated with "Christian" universities teach this secular medicine alongside their Christian values and call it "integrated."

    * Most doctors make quite a substantial sum of money, much of which is the burden of the patients to pay.

    * Most doctor's offices participate in an insurance system that makes lots of money for the insurance companies and their investors by charging higher and higher premiums. This places an unfair burden on lower-middle class families and the "working poor" who often must choose between insurance premiums or other necessities of life. That can't be biblical.

    * Many doctors prescribe medicines about whose long-term side-effects they really know quite little. (See this week's Vioxx verdict.)

    * Doctors make their living by applying secular medical practices, medicines, and other avenues to affect "healing," when the Bible clearly teaches to the contrary that God alone is Jehovah Rophe.

    * The Bible says, "Bless the Lord O my soul, and forget not all His benefits...who HEALS ALL OUR DISEASES."

    * The Bible also says, "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up."

    So...it seems to me that since the Bible rather explicitly says that God heals all of our diseases, and then prescribes a method to effect the healing process...

    ...and since medical science is secular...

    ...and since so much of the healthcare industry is corrupted by greed...

    it seems that Christians should be turning instead to "Biblical Medicine." Further, our pastors and church leaders should be rebuked for how easily and how often they refer their friends and flock to secular medicine, thus robbing God of the opportunity to show His power and robbing believers of a deeper relationsihp with their Creator.

    But where are the degree programs at our seminaries? ;)
     
  2. preachinjesus

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    one must wonder aloud at the paradox faced when a Pentecostal medical doctor attends a Benny Hinn crusade...
     
  3. Jimmy C

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    Does the University of Mary Baker Eddy offer this degree?
     
  4. RandR

    RandR
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    Is that in Belton?

    I'm not sure they have a graduate school.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jimmy C

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    ROFL!

    I'm not sure the folks at Mary Hardin Baylor would appreciate the connection!
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    Maybe Pat Robertson's school, Regent, might offer this degree...

    no wait they specialize in Masters Divinity: Assassin Concetration
     
  7. Convicted by the Spirit

    Convicted by the Spirit
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    ha ha ... low blow
     
  8. Deacon

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    RandR, I'm not sure if you are ranting or writing in jest. I hope you are joking!

    You state:
    The Vioxx verdict is bogus. For most of the people who used the medication, it was a safe and highly effective pain reliever. Twelve jurors merely picked the most effective lawyer. Having medically untrained jurors decide malpractice cases is irrational and idiotic. For superior medicine as we know it to continue to thrive things will have to change.

    You go on to say:
    Physicians take biology, chemistry and physics courses during the four years prior to medical school; they are basic sciences. Undergraduate chemistry and physics generally don’t discuss theoretical aspects of origins. Biology may hit of aspects of it but doesn't dwell on it to much since it is controversial. The fact that some Christians have placed higher learning in disrespect is a sad thing. Any seminary taht teaches a disregard of the sciences should be crossed off the list of reputable institutions.

    Evolution is a fact. Yes, even organizations such as ‘Answers in Genesis’ will reluctantly admit it. Yikes!!! But let me continue, the term “evolution” doesn’t necessarily have to include a theory of origins. Evolution theory is used in understanding the everyday aspects of our ecology. The study of biology is inherently tied to evolutionary theory in explainging and understanding how life works. Failure to understand how evolution effects the world we live in could have fatal consequences. Microbiologists and virologist who develop vaccines use evolutionary statistics to attempt to predict the next outbreak.
    “Most doctors” have studied day (and night) during four years of undergraduate studies, 4 to 5 years of medical school, 2 to 3 years of internship, and perhaps another 3 to 7 years in specialty fellowships to get an ever-dwindling paycheck.
    Are there any biblical prohibitions against paying a physician what is due?

    God gave us the earth to subdue. Knowing how the heavens and earth work and applying that knowledge is part of subduing it.
    Prayer is effective but trying to force God’s hand by saying you will not use the products He has provided in His world is forcing His hand. I’ve never been able to corner God into doing what I want; even with fervent prayer.

    Rob
     
  9. RandR

    RandR
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    Rob,

    Please note the winking smiley at the end of my original post.

    Though I am anticipating that Jay Adams, John MacArthur, and some others will be starting their "Biblical Medicine" programs and publishing books on the subject shortly.

    ;) (Please note this winking man.)
     
  10. StefanM

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    Don't forget! There's a fast-track for those who have a B.S. in Covert Ops!
     
  11. paidagogos

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    Yeah, I still perceive it as a swipe at Jay Adams. It wasn't very funny even with the winky man. Just remember there are 10 million comedians out of work and you're trying to be funny or sarcastic or whatever. [​IMG]

    In a serious vein, the idea of a medical school founded on Biblical principles, although probably not at seminaries, might not be a bad idea. And I'm not talking about the Oral Roberts type either. After all, healing was closely associated with the OT priesthood. I am thinking in terms of focusing on medicine as a Biblical obligation to minister to the sick. This is a far cry from the modern medical education model, which is all practice-oriented (i.e. maximizing profits) as opposed to the patient-oriented model of a few decades ago. Medicine is ministry; at least it ought to be from a Christian perspective. So, what's wrong with the concept of "Biblical medicine."

    Furthermore, the SDAs have come up with some interesting data indicating that right living has health benefits. It seems that the abstentious diet and lifestyle of the SDAs makes them healthier than the gluttonous Baptists. Do you believe in stewardship of the body and healthy living?
     
  12. paidagogos

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    Nonsense. This is a semantic word game. You call it evolution and then talk about something else. Whereas evolutionary theory and thought predominates biology, you are not talking about evolution here—at least, not in the sense of life forms evolving into other forms. Your scientific understanding is lacking.
     
  13. Deacon

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    I saw it, I wasn't sure it meant what it did! :D
    Whew, I'm breathin a little easier.

    Rob
     
  14. RandR

    RandR
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    paid,

    On the one hand, I realize that you have seldom, if ever, made a mistake. But on the other, I don't think you fully caught the intent of my original post if you thought either that I was merely trying to be funny or that my only point was to take a swipe at Jay Adams. (So I'm sure it must have had to do with perspicuity and poor thinking and writing ability on my end.)

    But my point was not simply to take a "swipe," as you put it, at those who prefer nouthetic counseling over and against the so-called "integrated" methods. Rather, I hoped to point out that it is hypocritical for one to take a hardline stance against so-called "secular" psychology, and then to run to the doctor's office for every runny nose.

    It is inconsistent for seminaries to use the language they use in their "biblical counseling" programs, but then to falsely dichotomize between mental and physical health and healthcare.

    It is inconsistent for authors to pick and choose in which situations the Bible alone is sufficient. Depressed? The joy of the Lord is your strength. Cancer? Better run out and start pumping poison into your bloodstream ASAP. Seems a bit duplicitous, no?

    I should not have named Adams by name in that follow up. First, naming Adams could le
     
  15. PatsFan

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    RandR,

    I recently picked up Oden's book, "Classical Pastoral Care" which features exerpts from the early church fathers showing that psychology was used by church leaders long before the advent of modern psychology. The notion that all of the answers to our emotional problems can be found in the Bible is a relatively new concept apparently.
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433
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    It is rather interesting how many condemn many practics of counseling but still go to a doctor.
     
  17. Convicted by the Spirit

    Convicted by the Spirit
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    Forgive me for being bias but I am a student under a Nouthetic Counseling program. Also, I am a former Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft user and just about everyother drug taken for anxiety and depression. I have honestly tried everything under the sun to get rid of or to deal with my anger. I want nothing more on this earth than to be free from it completely. All physiology did was cover up my heart through drugs ... also it tries to pin your anxiety, anger, sinful actions on something your mother/father did or did not do to you, it was anything but my fault. No, sin is your own choice and it is THE reason why we have such a need for counselors and Physiologists.

    Why does a woman after suffering from a stroke all the sudden get angry and emotionally unstable? Because her body and brain was deterating and she was unable to hide and cover up the truth which resided in her heart. "from an abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."

    Why did I have an anger problem? Because I let bitterness and unloving thoughts and ideas in my heart toward God and others stay there.

    Many people don't like Jay Adams because he is a little rough around the edges and because he tells you that your problem that you have ... its called sin. Since I started this program I have felt and had more freedom in this area than ever before in my life. Physiology covers the sin up, but biblical counseling goes directly to the heart of the matter and removes helps remove that sin. Physiology puts the blame of your problems on someone else or some circomstance, while biblical counseling goes to the heart and seeks to remove sin, which is THE problem all of mans mental disorders. Am I saying that intergrated counseling or physiology can't bring a person to repentance toward God? No way!! God used a donkey to speak to Balaam. God can use any intrustament he sees fit for his purpose, even if their counseling methods are flat out wrong.

    As well I have diabetes so therefore it requires medicine which I have to get from a doctor ... a medical one. If have a problem with my car, I don't take it to best buy ... no I take to an auto shop. If you have a problem with your heart your take it heart doctor. If you have a problem with your immaterial heart then you take it to a counselor who can counsel you and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit uncover the root problem of the immaterial heart.
     
  18. paidagogos

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    There's no parallel here! This is an invalid comparison.
     
  19. paidagogos

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    Bob Smith, James Halla, et. al. are doctors who have bought into Biblical (i.e. nouthetic) counseling. Halla has written a book on dealing with pain. Good post.
     
  20. paidagogos

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    I know exactly what you are saying—that’s why I replied. However, depression and cancer are not comparable. The dichotomy between mental health and physical health is not false—it is real. There is no duplicity or inconsistency as you aver.

    The whole concept of mental illness is a construct called into question even by secular psychiatrists (e.g. Thomas Saaz, et. al.). You are obviously doing slapstick comedy or you don’t understand the clash of the paradigms. Good nouthetic counselors can go to medical doctors without violating their beliefs. Either you have never read Jay Adams or you don’t understand Jay Adams.

    I don’t have the time to argue this well-worn old shoe but I challenge you to legitimatize the concept of mental illness. Make it comparable to physical illness and physical health. What is mental illness? Mental illness is a bastard concept. Since your presuppositions for your slapstick comedy are built on this false premise, you have no legitimate basis for argument. Until you can cross this chasm, nothing more needs to be said.
     

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