Which would you die for?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rufus_1611, Mar 20, 2007.

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  1. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
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    "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:" - Revelation 6:9

    "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." - Revelation 12:11

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." - Revelation 20:4

    According to the above, there are Christians who at some point will be beheaded for the Word of God. The "word" or "the word of God" either has multiple meanings or multiple manifestations as this can refer to Jesus Christ...

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7

    ...the audibilized words of God the Father, through men of God...

    "But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying," - 1 Kings 12:22

    ...or, I believe, the preached word as iterated from the written word...

    "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." - Romans 10:17

    Today, we receive revelation through the written word of God contained within what we know to be "The Bible". In our times and in our language, "The Bible" has become "Bibles" for there are many.

    I hesitate to say that I would die for anything, for no man truly knows until faced with that situation. However, I was pressed to admit this in another thread and in my sobriety, if I was faced with a moment where someone or someones tried to take my Bible from me, I would find this to be something worth dying for. I believe that the Word of God is found today in the Authorized or King James Version and it is this Bible which, should I be faced with no Bible and temporal life or Bible and the guillotine, I would choose the Bible.

    Questions for Conversation:
    1. Would you die for the Word of God?
    2. What is your definition of the Word of God?
    3. If the Word of God is the Bible, which Bible would you die for?
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I hope and trust that I would face death before betraying the word of God, no matter which translation of the scriptures was involved.

    There are not many Bibles - there are many translations of the Bible.
     
  3. Trotter

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    I would die for the word of God, period, translations notwithstanding. Roger is dead on the money there.

    When it comes to the word of God, I will fight tooth and nail. But translations aren't really worth the fight. Why? Because a tranlation is just that, a translation. Nothing magical about it, nothing special about it. Whether it is 400 years old or the ink hasn't dried yet, it is still what someone (singular or plural) thought the words of the original languages ought to mean int he language that the translation was written in.
     
  4. Rufus_1611

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    Do you have the word of God?
     
  5. James_Newman

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    If the Supreme Socialist Government of the North American Union told you that you could have this translation of the bible, but not this other one, would you be OK with that? I hesitate to say that I would die for the King James Bible, but I recognize that in my belief system it is worth dying for. If the time comes that I must be found in possession of a banned book, then I suppose we will see how much faith I have in it.
     
  6. webdog

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    Why couldn't the text be talking about Tribulation believers caught with the Word of God? I can see the AC's army raiding homes, finding Bibles and executing those who own Bibles.
     
  7. Rufus_1611

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    It could be talking about that very thing. Which Bible(s) do you think the AC/UN army would decide to confiscate? Would they confiscate The Message? Revolve? NIV? KJV? The Lost World? Would it be any book that says "Bible" on it or would it be only select ones or a select one. Let's say they were to only come after the Message but they would leave the NIV, would you risk your life for one, both or neither?
     
  8. rbell

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    The love I have for God's Word is not based on the amount of revulsion it's appearance causes communist soldiers.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

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    Scripture quoted above
    (I've passed on the lack of a scholarly
    reference /like which Bible Translation or Version/ ).

    ------------------------------------------
    Heb 4:12 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For the word of God is quicke and powerfull,
    and sharper then any two edged sword,
    pearcing euen to the diuiding asunder of soule and spirit,
    and of the ioynts and marrowe,
    and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


    There are two Greek words translated 'the word':
    Logos - the living Word of God, the person: Messiah Jesus
    Rhema - the written Word of God, the books: the Holy Bible

    The term here in Hebrews 4:12
    is 'Logos', so it is speaking of Messiah Jesus.
    ------------------------------------------

    The term in Revelation 6:9 is 'logos'

    The term in Revelation 12:11 is 'logos'

    The term in Revelation 20:4 is 'logos'

    Anybody care to talk about the 'rhema' of God?
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    shouldn't 'communist soldiers' be 'radical islamic terrorists'?
     
  11. Rufus_1611

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    "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for [Messiah Jesus], and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." - Revelation 20:4

    They were killed for the witness of Jesus and for Messiah Jesus? Actually what does the "witness of Jesus" mean in the Greek Ed?
     
  12. DQuixote

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    It is obviously tribulation scripture, but I think that misses the point. The OP asks what each of us would do in a similar situation, IMHO.

    I can think of all sorts of variables.........

    Am I alone when confronted?
    Do I need to know that my wife, nearby, has been slain before they kill me?
    What type of bullet will a KJV OT/NT study bible stop?

    .......and others........
     
    #12 DQuixote, Mar 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2007
  13. Ed Edwards

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    Rufus_1611: //Actually what does the "witness of Jesus"
    mean in the Greek Ed?//

    the 'witness for Jesus'

    Note that the 'of' is added to make sense of
    the Greek in English. The Greek literally says
    'witness Jesus'. IMHO 'for' is a better addition
    than Jesus - my call according to the Baptist
    Distinctive: " Doctrine of Soul Compentency'.

    Rev 20:4 (KJV1769 with Stong's numbers):
    And2532 I saw1492 thrones,2362 and2532 they sat2523
    upon1909 them,846 and2532 judgment2917 was given1325
    unto them:846 and2532 I saw the3588 souls5590
    of them that were beheaded3990 for1223
    the3588 witness3141 of Jesus,2424 and2532
    for1223 the3588 word3056 of God,2316
    and2532 which3748 had not3756 worshiped4352
    the3588 beast,2342 neither3777 his846 image,1504
    neither2532, 3756 had received2983 his mark5480
    upon1909 their848 foreheads,3359 or2532 in1909
    their848 hands;5495 and2532 they lived2198
    and2532 reigned936 with3326 Christ5547 a thousand5507 years.2094


    conisder 'and' in this portion:
    " ... beheaded3990 for1223
    the3588 witness3141 of Jesus,2424 and2532
    for1223 the3588 word3056 of God,2316 ... "

    'and' can mean:

    1. connect two names for the same set
    2. connect two similiar but seperate sets
    3. be the 'set AND' for two sets (all members of both sets)
    4. be the 'set Inclusive OR' for two sets
    --- (all members of either set and the intersection)
    5. be the set Exclusive OR for two sets
    --- (all members of either set and the intersection)
    6. the outline 'and' (Greek outline)

    Here it is #1: 'connects two names for the same set'


    Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
    and iudgement was giuen vnto them: & I saw the soules
    of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus,
    and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
    neither his image, neither had receiued his marke
    vpon their foreheads, or in their hands;
    and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.

    Here the ampersand '&' stand for 'and'#:
    --- 'connect two similiar but seperate sets'
    Set #1 ("I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
    and iudgement was giuen vnto them:" is the pretribulation
    rapture saints and the second set is the great tribulation
    period saints.

    Note the difference between the KJV1769 Edition
    and the KJV1611 Edition -- totally different meanings.

    Romans 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,
    and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls
    of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
    and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
    neither his image, neither had received his mark
    upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
    and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    The KJV1611 Edition is post-trib:
    the '&' indicates a subservant 'and': a lessor 'and':
    a set and it's subset.

    The KJV1769 Edition is pre-trib: the 'and' indicating
    a superior 'and': two similiar but different sets.

    Hey, spelling ('and' versus '&') does make a
    doctrinal difference :)

    'word3056' is 'logos': the Living Word of God, Messiah Jesus.
     
    #13 Ed Edwards, Mar 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2007
  14. Rufus_1611

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    How about that? I have a KJV Bible that is post-trib and one that is pre-trib. Which position does God hold to?
     
  15. John of Japan

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    They would confiscate all of them. Why would they care about the Bible versions issue?

    In Japan, if the Kenpeitai secret police were revived and came to my house, they'd probably threaten me about the Shinkaiyaku Bible, similar to the NASV in English. Would I die for it? Certainly.

    Alas, though, the Shinkaiyaku is not based on the TR/Byzantine. But it is the best we have. There are no NTs in print based on the TR/Byzantine, and there have never been any in modern Japanese. (The previous two were in very difficult Classical Japanese.)

    So, Rufus_1611. Does it pass your standards for me to die for such a Bible? What is your position on situations such as all of us IFB misisonaries in Japan face?
     
  16. tinytim

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    We'll find out sooner or later....
    Get it... sooner.... or later.... I kill me!!! :laugh:
     
  17. rbell

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    Pan-trib. At some point, tribulation, and ultimately, God makes things pan out.
     
  18. Christlifter

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    Kjv 4 Me!

    If the Peoples Socialist Party of the North American Union came to kill me for having a Bible, I am a KJVP, so I would prefer to die for a TR/MT Bible.... specifically the KJV1769 But...

    Any literal translation of the Greek and Hebrew Bible will do just fine!

    Amen!

    :jesus::laugh::thumbs:
     
  19. jshurley04

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    Since I will not have to be here when that happens, I will say that I will not die for any Bible. IF, however, the government gets stupid beyond belief, I would die to protect my family and my church's right to have the Word of God no matter what translation. Since God has promised to preserve HIS Word, I know that day will most likely not come this side of the rapture. Thus, I am not concerned with it in the least.
     
  20. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Why die... go down fighting!!!
     
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