Featured While speaking in tounges....

If you would listen not only to me but to others as well, you would find that the above if found not only in the Bible but in history.
1. As TCassidy has explained, Tongues, prophecy and revelatory knowledge ceased by the end of the first century when the canon of Scripture was complete. This is borne out be a fair and proper exposition of 1Cor.13:8-13. You fail to consider this passage with objective eyes.
2. Tongues ceased before the end of the first century, possibly as early as 70 A.D. as it was a sign to the Jews, and that is when judgment came upon them.
3. Tongues, being one of the sign gifts had to end by the end of the first century because it was a sign for the apostles, authenticating the apostles and their message. The last apostle was John, who died ca. 102 A.D. But he was exiled long before that, and would not need authentication in exile.

There are the main purposes of tongues. There purposes were all filled before the end of the first century, possibly even before 70 A.D. There is no contradiction.
History does not record the gift of languages after the first century.
It does record instances of gibberish, as is found in 1905 and during this present age. But that has its roots in paganism, and is not the gift of languages found in the Bible.

Other than the above what are the purposes of tongues?

And that is what you don't have. You do not have any Biblical foundation or evidence for what you do.

First that was spoken to the apostles, not to you. Context is key.
Secondly, I take the Scripture literally not allegorically as those heretics did--Origen and Augustine who introduced the allegorical method of interpretation.
Therefore, go take up your snakes and play with them.
Go gulp down your draino, and see what happens.
You have your promise there that nothing will happen to you.
But you will not rest on those promises will you?
The reason: They don't apply to; they were given to the apostles, just like tongues (in the very same context).
“Anyone who speaks in a tongue ... speak ... to God.”

The gift, as was all the gifts of the Spirit, were given to the church, the local church. They were not given for private use, just as healing was not given for private use. They were given to edify the entire body. But you misinterpret Scriptures and deny them to come to your conclusion. Never does the Bible say that the gift of languages is given for private prayer, never!
How can it be a valuable asset when you don't know what you are saying>
Ridiculous! Would you speak to a friend like that--in a language that neither you understand or he understands? Of course not. But Jesus is described in the Bible as a friend "that sticks closer than a brother." You insult him by speaking in gibberish that neither you or he can understand.

It is an emotional experience. So you only think it builds you up. If you want to be built up spend time in the Word and be built up by doctrine, not emotions.

Paul never said that tongues edifies in a private prayer language. That is a distortion of Scripture.

 

One other thing that bothers me about this is that the so-called HS baptism after conversion gets to be more important than conversion itself and so does the alleged tongues-talk, as if ministry cannot be fully effective without it. This ignores or disparages all the Christians down through the ages who are responsible for where we are today. Look at all the tremendous missionary activity, from the early churches until now, accomplished without dividing Christians into two classes, those who have had the alleged HS baptism and those who have not. This theology insults 1900 years of faithful witnesses who many times gave their lives for their faith.

 

Explaining it and proving it with scriptures is two different things! I can explain a lot of unbiblical theories...but until you can address what Paul addressed in 1 Cor. 14 that tongues is speaking to God/giving thanks/ praying in the spirit..you have nothing but theories!

But I do! You just ignore them like many others! But as least I will have to give you credit...you do not shy away from the subject like others on this board!

The great apostle Paul spoke very favorably of the practice: “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.” Even further, Paul gave an admonition that, sadly, is disobeyed in some churches of our day: “Do not forbid speaking in tongues.” Yet many pastors in our day do exactly this, telling their congregations that tongues are not for them or not for this day and age.

Lets see...
Mark 16:15-17 He [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes (that is anyone that believes the message of the disciples) and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe(that includes us..the ones that believe the disciples message): In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues.
Context is important!

So you are encouraging me to tempt God! Shame on you! NOWHERE does it say to do that! One day I will explain those verses to you...but you are not ready to receive it not!

I rest in the finished word of Jesus Christ as my Savior! I do not take promises taking out of context! NOWHERE does it say to take up snakes and drink poison as you imply!

So now you are going to try to tell everyone that tongues is just for th apostles! REALLY??? I guess you will have to throw out half of Acts then...oh, I forgot! None of Acts applies to you!

Yes! Speaks TO God! When I speak to God..I call that prayer!

So now you are saying I can not lay hands on anyone in the hospital and pray for healing? Even if you use the argument that the giift of healing is not for today...back then are you saying that they could not go into someones house and heal those in need. As a matter of fact Jesus did a lot of his healing outside the assembly. I guess he set a wrong example, huh? Common sense, DHK!!!

Answer me this...Do you pray outside the church? Do you use discernment outside the church, Do you have faith outside the church? Get real! Do you see how for left field you have to go to prove your theories!

Well, since I believe tongues is speaking to God (as the Word says in vs. 2)...why would I speak to anyone else?

If you really understood tongues..you would not make that statement! Tongues builds up your spirit...not your flesh!

NO what is distorting scriptures is when you ignore many of them that are plain....speaking in tongues is praying in the spirit/speaking to God/ giving thanks!

 

The division comes on your part! I consider all born again people my brothers and sisters! You are wrong about the conversion part! But this is a debate board isn't it? Most of us agree on conversion and the importance of it! What is to debat about that?

 

I speak in my language--not gibberish.
I pray, not only in my spirit, but in the Spirit.
I speak to God--in a way that He can understand me, and in a way that I know he understands me.
I also give thanks in all that I do.

In your speaking in gibberish I don't believe you do any of the above and yet claim to do all of the above. How ironic!

 

Well I pray with the spirit and I pray with understanding also!
I also praise him with singing with my spirit and with understanding!
I am so glad Paul made the distinction between the two!
He also said that giving thanks in tongue (praying) is good! Just in the church interprete that all can understand!

Praying in the spirit/tongues/speaking to God/bless with the spirit...Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor. 14! It is man that has trouble fitting it into their theology!

 

The spiritual gifts to Christians according to the majority here only lasted a few decades. They ended by the time that the last book of the canon of Scripture was written and disseminated (or when the last apostle was gone) according to the majority here. This is a curious fact on its own that all these gifts has such a short shelf life. I wonder why? Do people agree on how many gifts there were? When did these gifts begin?

We are told that we no longer see through a glass darkly, aren't we?

 

That is not true. I have always resented the Charismatic attitude that they have something I need and that i am deficient without it. The Charismatic movement is a damaging thing. I've seen that from experience.

 

Do you share with others what you have learned in scriptures?
Do you find that there are christians that are not where you are in your walk with God, whether they are steps behind you are steps ahead of you?

My question is why do those that do not believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit resent those that do? Or those that share what they have learned and experienced? Why the resentment? There are many way beyond me in producing fruit in their lives...but I do not resent them! I desire to walk as they are!

Whether you believe you get it all at once or separate...we are all at different places...we are all growing....learning...experiencing God at different degrees!

I know there is more! I have not arrived yet! I am still learning, growing and walking out what the Word says I can!

I do not resent people that are more mature in the Word or in there walk than me! I am not saying that people that believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is more mature than others. Corinthians is a prime example of that!

 

Good questions!

I was curios about this fact too! I ask the Lord during my search for truth concerning the manifestations of the Holy Spirit...Why? We need the power they walked in as much if not more than they did. We need discernment! We need faith! We need healings! etc

 

What I resent is the spiritual condescension, that they consider that they have the "full gospel" and I only have part of it!

 

Try and understand what Paul was saying here. It is not what you think.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
In another translation:

(CEV) Then what should I do? There are times when I should pray with my spirit, and times when I should pray with my mind. Sometimes I should sing with my spirit, and at other times I should sing with my mind.

This is what MacArthur says about verse 15:

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[FONT=&quot] I tend to agree with Macarthur. He makes sense.
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[FONT=&quot]You can read more of what he says on the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians here:[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1871[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1872[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1873[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1874[/FONT]
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My point was that none of us have it all figured out! None of us understand our salvation to the point that we understand all! We are told to walk out our salvation! So whether you get it all at one time as you believe or you get a seperate experience as others believe....We are all still learning how to walk it out...We are all still learning and growing!

 

He makes two disticntion in Corinthians! It does not matter how you put it there is two ways! How would you explain praying without your mind?

Another point you miss when you do not keep it all in context is that when they were praying/blessing with the spirit, Paul compliments them and tells them that they do it WELL! The correction is that in the assembly sing/bless/pray with our understanding/mind.

 

Thanks! It doesn't seem that anyone wants to say that we are not looking through a glass darkly, but the debate itself suggests that we are looking through a glass darkly. It seems strange that Christians could only have had spiritual gifts for a few decades in the ancient world.

1 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

MacArthur does make a distinction. He does not interpret the passage in the same manner that most commentaries I have read. He believes there is a distinction that can be made. Sometimes they were speaking from their pagan past--in gibberish. And sometimes in actual language. That is why I previously gave you those links and encouraged you to read them. He gives a fresh perspective on the chapter.
Whether or not I completely agree with him or not is not relevant here. What he does do, is show that there is a difference drawn between the spirit and the mind.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

I will pray (both, at the same time) in the spirit and in the mind.
The spirit, (small s) is the emotional part of man. The word means breath or wind, literally.
When Jesus came to the grave of Lazarus he "groaned in his spirit."
"He wept. "
The "groaning" was not speaking in tongues or paganistic Charismatic gibberish. It was an emotional response that came from deep within himself when he saw the crowds mourning for Lazarus whom they loved. He also wept.
When Christ was in the garden of Gesthamene he prayed in his spirit. It just wasn't his mind, not just words "Father take this cup from me," but his spirit praying so fervently that great drops of blood fell from his forehead. An angel came and strengthened him.
James uses Elijah as an example. Leading into this example he makes the statement:
"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
The human spirit must prayer in "fervency."
Psalm 126 says: They that goeth forth weeping shall doubtless come again, bringing their sheaves with them.
It is the human spirit that weeps.

This is what Paul is saying. I will pray with my spirit (earnestly, fervently, perhaps even with tears), and I will pray with my mind as well. Both must be used. The spirit must be accompanied together. Words, though uttered with the mind, are useless, unless they come from the heart.

The same is true with the singing. The must come from the heart. Have you ever heard the song leader say: Sing it like you mean it. Sing from your heart. Your spirit must sing with your mind.
The verse has nothing to do with tongues. It has everything to do with understanding.

Praying without your mind is not praying at all. Paul condemned it.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
An emotional prayer; a prayer that is offered in your human spirit without understanding is of no help to anyone.
Properly rendered here "my understanding" means "other people's understanding of me." The gift was for others. The understanding was unfruitful and therefore useless. You are praying with your breath, your emotion, but the understanding is not beneficial.

 

Well you stick with MacAuthur's conclusion! I will let scriptures interpret scriptures!

 

Anyone that says they see every thing clear now is not being honest!

 

I wasn't quoting MacArthur. I was giving you the results of my own study.
And that is scripture. You can't run away from it. There is a difference between the spirit and the mind. One uses his human spirit, the source of emotion, and one uses his mind, his intellect. We use both. And Paul says we use both.