White lies

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    I'm sure we have heard the saying - "a half truth is a full lie"

    What are your thoughts about that.

    With Christmas coming up - do women fib to their husbands where they are going, when they want to go shopping for his present.

    Men, if your wife says " how do you like this new blouse and skirt. You know it looks horrible on her, but you say - "it says something special about you" or some such explanation?

    Bottom line - are we sinning with these "half truths"?
     
  2. joey

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    That example you give - it takes wisdom to know when to open your mouth where it comes to "do I look good in this" kind of question! I know we women can be challenging at times.

    Where it comes to half-truths - is it leaving out unnecessary information that may hurt the other person's feelings but STILL telling the truth?
    e.g. "I think you look better in that other outfit because that outfit compliments your *name good thing* better." Compare that to "this outfit makes you look yellow, the seams look too tight..."

    If the half-truth is intended to mislead the other person then I definitely think these half-"truths" i.e. lies are sinful.
     
  3. DiamondLady

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    There's no such thing as a little lie....it's either the truth or it's not. If it's not 100% the truth then it's a lie, and that's sin.

    BTW, I appreciate it when my husband is completely honest with me on something I'm wearing, when I ask him. I'm not fishing for compliments, I prefer those honestly and freely given, but I want his male opinion on whether or not what I'm wearing is modest and does not draw the male eye (other than his) where it does not belong.
     
  4. Ruiz

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    No, my wife will tell me she is leaving and why she is leaving, then tell me that I cannot peak and must go to a different part of the house to wrap presents.

    I am honest about my views on her clothing. I may have bad clothing taste, but I am honest at the same time.
     
  5. Arbo

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    Wifey and I buy our own Christmas presents so clandestine shopping trips aren't an issue.

    When asked for my opinion of her clothing purchases, honesty and tact are the policy. And then I duck.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Salty the church is engaged on a path that is extremely dangerous. What we have is a church that has become a people of compromise. We have learned that there is no absolutes and as long we can find some good in what we do or see no immediate evil we justify our doings.

    We need to learn to just be honest. In the scenario you gave why not just say I am going Christmas shopping and leave it there? Instead we have learned to become liars calling evil good and good evil. Why would we seek to fix our thoughts on ways to circumvent what is holy instead of seeking to actually seeking holiness in all we do?

    When we set standards that teeter on the edge, at some point we will fall over the edge, and become a victim of our own workings. Wisdom cries out to the church today, but the church desires its own makings and will also receive its own rewards.

    Wisdom steers far and wide from the wiles of evil while many in the church choose instead to walk the path of destruction. I would point all to the Proverbs.
    Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.
    The bottom line is that just because something can be justified in our minds it also can cause the senses to be dulled and we fall into a bigger trap further down the road. While all things are permmissbale all things are not healthy. BE WISE! Learn Wisdom! Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

    Let us learn not to walk the path of a fool by walking so close to the edge that the threat of distruction becomes our motto instead of wisdom.

     
  7. seekingthetruth

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    How about lies in the church bulletin?

    Last year we had a situation in our church that has caused much controversy.

    The church planned a Valentine's dinner after the morning service during the week of Valentine's Day. The dinner was listed in the bulletin for several weeks as a "Valentine's Day Dinner".

    We have one family that has been in the church longer than anybody, and they are led by a man that noone likes very much. He is very rude and condescending. Every comment he makes is smart aleck and intended to put someone down.

    Anyway, his birthday is in the same week as Valentine's Day, so his family decided to hijack the church wide Valentine's Day dinner and have a surprise birthday party for this 60 year old man instead.

    Me and my family went to church expecting a dinner, and we even brought dessert. The Valentine's Day dinner was still in the bulletine and the deacon even invited all the visitors to stay for it during the announcments.

    When we went into the fellowship hall, it was decorated with green and gold, and had toy john Deere tractors on the tables. We were wondering what the heck is going on, and then I saw an easel with a poster decorated with the words "Through the years", and had the birthday man's pictures all around it.

    It was then that we realized that there was no Valentine's Day dinner. And since we thought it was stupid to throw a birthday party for a 60 year old man, especially one that we don't care to be around, we left.

    We found out later that quite a few more left also, and that they too were upset about the lies and deceit. We have 2 pastors. The oldest one still defends this as harmless, and us just over reacting, but the other says that from now on that the bulletin and the announcements will only contain truths, not lies.

    What is your opinion?

    John

    PS, I would have had no problem if they had of had a cake for him after the dinner without hijacking the whole thing and then lieing about it.
     
  8. freeatlast

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    It sounds like the church is very carnal in their actions. Ask the Pastor to study 1Corinthains indepth and bring the study to the church.
     
  9. Alcott

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    re: "a half truth is a full lie"

    What is a "half truth" anyway? I can see it when you admit you stole 10 dollars but actually stole 20. But all these purely opinionated questions or answers... like asked to evaluate a job of any kind which is lousy, and you say it "shows great effort" or something to that effect-- I don't know. And where being honest is being hurtful, and refusing to answer is taking the fifth, per se, and is therefore just as hurtful-- that I don't know either.

    But an opinion-- even a simple one about a simple matter-- could be very long it you included every thought you have on the matter. So is it a lie to not tell everything you can think of? And then, are 'misleading' and 'encouraging' synonyms in the endeavor to help someone along? Especially where a child is concerned, do you tell him the picture he drew looks awful (your true opinion)? do you tell him it's 'good,' really meaning his efforts were good though the picture isn't? or do you try to evade the honesty issue and say "It's good that you're practicing your drawing?"

    And teaching children 'manners' brings up a still different angle. If your child is invited to a friend's home where he will be offered food and drink, do you tell him to accept it and say 'thank you,' even though it's something he didn't really want, to say 'no thank you; I'm not thirsty' if it's a drink he doesn't like? or to tell the truth and say 'I hate [whatever it is].?'

    BTW if a half truth is a whole lie, then how much a lie is a three-quarterx truth? a seven-eighth truth? a fiftenn-sixteenth truth?....
     
    #9 Alcott, Oct 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2011
  10. Salty

    Salty
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    Looks like you have quite of a bit of difference than Freeatlast!

    So Free how would you handle the situation when a child asks you about how good his drawing is?
     
  11. freeatlast

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    I would tell him the truth without flattery or brutality. The idea that any sin is acceptable is why the church is in the state it is in today.
     
  12. seekingthetruth

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    I agree

    My church is very biblical and godly in tit's teachings,and very tough on it's belieifs.....that is why I am very confused why they condone a lie to pronote a non-godly holiday.

    These are good people,

    John
     
  13. freeatlast

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    I hear that all the time. Usually it is a parent who has a child that has gotten in trouble with the law and they say but he/she is a good kid. I always tell them no if he/she was a good kid they would not have done what they did.

    The same applies with church members and leaders. That is why we are warned not to be deceived. Keep in mind that being tough in word and on others while not applying the same standards to ourselves makes us a hypocrite. Someone in the leadership of your church is a hypocrite based on what you described. Bad company influences good intentions so if they are making excuses or brushing it over I would leave.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

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    To me, it's all about intent. If you are intending to deceive or to hide your true beliefs as to not get in trouble or to wiggle your way out of trouble or to intending to benefit from an intentional "white lie", then I have problems with it.

    There are all sorts of ways to answer someone or to speak to someone truthfully without putting your foot in your mouth or offending.

    For example:

    [1.] "How do you like my new haircut?" Well, let's suppose you think it looks stupid and looks like the person should sue the barber. You could say, "Do you remember when you wore your hair like [such and such]? I really liked look on you the best."

    [2.] Suppose one of my 3-year-olds in children's choir says, "Look at my picture of Zaccheus, Ms. Kim! Do you like it?" I always answer in the affirmative because unless they absolutely scribbled all over the page with a black crayon, then it DOES look good (for a 3-year-old). I say things like, "I love it! I really like how you gave him blue hair...." or ".....Wow! Remember last year when you couldn't even color at all and now look at how good you are doing."

    The Bible says "speak the truth in love" in Ephesians. That doesn't mean to say the cold truth even if it hurts. You can't say to someone who is sharing a burden with you and needs to talk to you, "Look, I'm busy and I really don't give a crap about your problems right now." Even if that's how you truthfully feel, you can't say that. It's not in love. Speak the truth in love is primarily about being bold and honest about the Gospel, but I think it can pertain to all truths.

    You can lovingly and tactfully speak the truth to anyone.

    The best thing to do is to think before we speak and to weigh our words carefully before they come flying out of our mouths

    Just because it's true, does NOT mean that you and I have the right nor the responsibility to say it.

    Here's the "should I pour out the truth to this person" test.
    • Is it true?
    • Is it necessary that it be said?
    • Is it necessary that I, personally, be the one to say it?
    • Is my spouting off the truth going to bring unity or an unnecessary division, peace or unnecessary pain, a warranted and temporary hurt or an unwarranted and longtime rift?
    • Am I saying this for healing's sake or just to spout off at the mouth?
    That should keep most of us silent for a LOOOOONG time.


     
  15. Gina B

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    This made me grin! My husband is definitely not a professional when it comes to clothing, but he knows what he likes on me so even if I don't like how I look in it, I am glad he tells me his opinion because I enjoy knowing HE likes it and that's more important than the opinions of anyone else.

    Although if I'm going somewhere without him, I ask my kids. LOL They are very, very honest in their replies!

    As for the question...I do make attempts at avoidance on some issues I don't want to answer, but usually fail so it doesn't work out too well. I can't straight out lie without laughing my tail off so it's not much of an issue with me at all, my physical response doesn't allow it. Avoidance...I did try when I moved to Oklahoma to avoid the question "how do you like living here?" I'd say stuff like "it's most certainly one of the most interesting places I've ever been!" or something of that nature, but it almost never fails that they push for a straight answer so I gave up. I can't stand Oklahoma and will leave as soon as possible. And of course that offends everyone, which is why I tried to be nice about it in the first place, but I guess I can't even tell the truth if I know inside that I'm doing it to avoid the real question so I quit doing that.

    Such is life. And there's no reason to lie about shopping for a present. I say so. Or if there's something I don't want to lie about, I say "I don't want to be asked about this, I'll tell you later but trust me, it's not a bad thing, okay?" Though the last time I did that I told anyhow after a while because I felt weird keeping a secret from him.

    All that to say that yeah, a white lie is still a lie. It's even called a lie. That would be your first clue, right?!
     
  16. Salty

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    How about this one:

    Phone rings, - call ID says it is the boss - Dad tells daughter to answer and say he is not at home

    - Okay - that definitely would be a lie

    But supposed she were to say -

    "I'm sorry, he is not currently available, may I take a message and have him call you back."
     
  17. Alcott

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    That is probably a lie, isn't it? If he is in fact available, that clinches that.

    My favorite hypothetical case is this: A man doesn't want to go to work one day, though he is not sick or involved in anything else urgent. So, still in the bed, he tells his wife to go get a frozen dinner and bring it to him. She goes and brings it, he takes it and tosses it into the air and catches it. Then he calls his office and says, "Today I'm down flat on my back and I just threw up my dinner."
     
  18. Gina B

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    Not available...why would that be a lie? If you don't want to talk, you aren't emotionally up to the conversation and unavailable can refer to such.
     
  19. Dempster

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    Wow.

    So suppose a little child ran up to Jesus, jumped up in His lap and said, "Look at the cat I drew, Jesus. Doesn't it look just like Fluffy?"

    Are you telling me that if it didn't Jesus would "tell him the truth without flattery or brutality?"
     
  20. freeatlast

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    Yes absolutely. Perhaps you have the wrong Jesus if you think He would flatter the child or be brutal to him as flattery is sin.
     

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