Who and What?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by gekko, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey all. been awhile since i started a topic. so here goes.
    ---

    This verse in Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    who and what is that verse talking about?
    ---

    thank you and God bless!

    (p.s. I already know... I'm wondering if anybody else does :smilewinkgrin:)
     
  2. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ultimately, it's talking about Jesus. This doesn't preclude there being more primary meanings (I think I've heard that it referred to the Persian king who would return the Jews from exile).
     
  3. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. Ultimately it is talking about Jesus.

    (persian king? ok then)

    but there is a deeper aspect to this verse... read it carefully.
     
  4. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    My understanding is that this verse is a dual prophecy.

    First, it is a reference to Christ in his advent. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:"

    Second, it is areference to Christ in His millenial Kingdom. "and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    hmm. SBC - never looked at it that way. i'll look more into that.
    ---

    does ANYONE see the Trinity being represented in this verse?
    this is what i'm getting at.

    if you do - what parts of the verse?
     
  6. AgapeMan

    AgapeMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    It refers to Jesus.:thumbsup:
     
  7. 4Pillars

    4Pillars
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Based on my understanding of the Scripture, the cited verse is referring to our Lord YHWH, the Son of the invisible God (name unknown), who was sent into this world, made flesh and became known as Jesus Christ. The God the whole earth SHALL he be called.

    But that is just my understanding. :thumbs:

    God Bless
     
    #7 4Pillars, Nov 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2006
  8. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok ok ok.

    lets look at the verse a little more carefully now.

    does anyone see the trinity - the three-person God head - in this verse?

    I sure do:
    Counsellor (holy spirit)
    everlasting Father (God the Father)
    Prince of Peace (Jesus - God's Son)
    ---

    does that make any sense? or am i waaayy off?
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The Birth of Christ
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see it in
     
  11. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    so i then ask - why is it so hard to understand the Trinity? It's in the Old Testament!! New Testament!!

    since it's in the old testament - then we have an argument against those that say it isn't.
    ---

    i just find the scriptures so fascinating!

    God Bless!
     
  12. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    Interesting, gekko...very good points. Thanks!
     
  13. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    The intrinsic truth of what you are stating is analogously there but not specifically the intent. The analogy however does show (interestingly enough) the fullness of Christ or as scripture states - in whom dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

    So, though it is a direct reference to Christ alone in His Future Kingdom, this Kingship Rule is established and maitained in the Godhead (Trinity) you mention and therefore absolute in its rule and rulership. In other words Heaven on earth - Immanuel [God with us]

    Thanks that was quiet interesting! :wavey:
     
    #13 Allan, Nov 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2006
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    I agree that if you look carefully you see it in the O.T. But you don't get the clear "in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit" that you find in Matt 28.

    The emphasis in the OT is on the ONE God of Deut 6
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Once you know the answer (John 14 and Counsellor as The Holy Spirit) for example -- you can go back and read it into the puzzle to see the picture. But that is reading Isaiah 9 through the lense of John 14.

    In Isaiah we see the promised birth of a child - a promised child. Do we think that God the Father was also incarnated or do we think it was just God the Son? It is the Son.

    So it would be hard to claim that all 3 were going to leave Heaven and be incarnated on earth in the form of the Messiah don't you agree.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    the thing is - that did happen. yet the Son is different than the Father and the Holy Spirit. yet all one.
     
  17. 4Pillars

    4Pillars
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0

    What about the the following........

    "Wonderful"

    "mighty God"

    I believe you're waaayy off, my friend. Following your logic,, it couldn't have been describing the "trinity" since you left out the two attributes above.... :laugh:

    Just my observation...
     
    #17 4Pillars, Nov 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2006
  18. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the Greek it is actually "Wonderful Counsilor" not "Wonderful, Counsilor".
     

Share This Page

Loading...