Who are the elect?

Being Joined with Christ being one with Gods Spirit is a mystery.

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

the Jews were never known the duties of the Christ to come. only that God would supply a perfect sacrifice.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

the Spirit which was given man at pentecost was the first time the Spirit had been administered towards man. with this Spirit is how God communicates with man concerning spiritual matters.

can you imagine no one who WALKED with Jesus had the Spirit within them. They first received this at Pentecost. They were using their natural senses while hearing Jesus. not their spiritual senses. their spiritual senses were carnal by nature.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But after pentecost.....they understood the spiritual message because they had the spirit within them. they were being quickened with Christ.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

men in the OT were not joined to Christ via grace for without the spirit within. man can say that he worked for his own salvation.

No OT saint had been spiritually resurrected while they were alive. nor did they receive the right to sit on the right side of the father with CHRIST.

NT saint was quickened with Christ...Before Pentecost! NONE.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

the mystery is that this is a NEW revelation of the plans of God. that the elect are joined as ONE with Christ and this includes those present after pentacost. both Jew and Gentile.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

THE mystery is that Christ would be joined to his elect AS ONE SPIRIT.
that man would eventually be one with the christ spirit. one with the lords Spirit. one with the Son of God as well as one with the Father..

This does not include any OT Saints, but towards the Elect After the Outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost.

Heres a mystery that the carnal babe nor any OT saints knew of then or Know of today. the carnal babe states that "Christ died for me".
That non have to enter into death because Christ already did. this is completely wrong.

This is denying the truth that they themselves must put away the flesh and die to self.

this they deny and remain carnal babes.

the Old Testament saints didnt have Christs sacrifice yet. they couldnt enter into spiritual death for Christ wasnt there to resurrect their spirit. they only had the law.

So heres a mature viewpoint... Not only do the Elect die to self. they offer their lives. enter death and have their spirit resurrected.
then as they are still alive in their flesh they are told to "fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in their flesh"

In other words die to self for others behalf.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

the mystery Paul keeps repeating is "CHRIST IN YOU"...Which wasnt offered to the OT Saints.

they were offered the Law. and a promise that a sacrifice would be offered in their Future..

So that the mystery was that the OT saints were not offered Christ to be joined in the Physical Lives.
But it was offered in Time to those After Pentecost. that the ELECT would be joined with Christ, lord, Son and Father. understanding by Experience in their lives. and this was never no once experienced in any OT Saint.

None.

Christ was not Joined as one with ANY OT Saint.

None.

Me2

 

BobRyan,

first the approach of viewing this in linear time.

1) the testator dies..2)the testament is read.

no one gets the inheritance before the testator dies. so if any promises were made prior. I guess everyone died before receiving the inheritance...


no one in the OT got to "go to heaven" before Christ. christ was the first resurrected from the dead...(and we can gather all elect in this first resurrection "with Christ".)

but the problem here is that you have to be physically alive to become "quickened with Christ"..one must be alert and alive to be chastened via grace to prove the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
the Elect are becoming living testaments of the inheritance received.

Christ was the first to be resurrected. all others follow. what we call the "first resurrection" is being joined with Christ while we are physically alive. and being resurrected from spiritual death.

which one can easily conclude..only the elect are in the first resurrection, with "all others" in the second resurrection...including all OT Jews.

all stories involving people in the OT was shadows of what was to become spiritual realities.

Moses represented the law. yet he didnt enter the promised land. ("in Christ")
Abraham looked for a city built "without hands".
he never received it while alive.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

they didnt receive the city, but the elect has a city. Where?

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you...

this is not something a carnal babe can grasp..It requires a mature understanding.. The resurrected Spirit of Christ is Within YOU!

and when Christ said it then...
NOBODY UNDERSTOOD IT...for they were all under the carnal spirits influence. this statement was recorded in their carnal minds until they actually received the spirit and reflected on what what said THAT DAY.

the kingdom, the city built without hands, the promised land, the inheritance, "is" the resurrected Spirit of Christ within them.

and it only came to them AFTER PENTECOST.


and Bob, We dont "find" the message..God plants his seed with us and we learn of its presence.

all carnal babes can say that they are "in Christ". but there is a difference of saying your in Christ and actually experiencing the understanding of the presence of Christ being "in you". it requires the acknowledgment of spiritually ding to self will and acknowledging the resurrection joined to anothers spirit.

this is serious business.

the bible can be literally misleading. no OT Saint received the faith of Christ because the distribution of his spirit didnt occur until after his death.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

who is the comforter?. Who is the spirit of truth?
It is the spirit of Christ. in his resurrected glorified form which could only occur after he died proving his qualifications as the true testator.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Its impossible for any man to state that one in the OT received the spirit of Christ before his actual death and resurrection.

Hebrews states plainly that they DIDNT RECIEVE THE PROMISE. what is the promise towards the Elect?

BEING JOINED WITH CHRIST...Christ "In You".

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


No One in the OT was Joined to Christ Before His Actual Death and the distribution of HIS resurreccted Spirit.

No One in the OT Had the spirit of Christ "in them" before his actual demonstration of its righteousness. before its actual resurrection from death.

However you twist the scriptures. all men before pentecost had a carnal unrighteous spirit.

Even abraham, Moses, Peter, Matthew, Enoch..etc.
Even John The Baptist.


the "Good news" was to be presented to the world through the Elect.. those who had the spirit of Christ "within them". throughout the OT. the prophets were preparing the emergence of the elect and the Gospel to be presented in the History of Mankind.

for 4000 years..nobody was a member of the Elect until the resurrection and distribution of the spirit of Christ.

Me2

 

Bob, thanks for your helpful input on my blood illustrations.

 

Me2, I respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points.

You said:

Hebrews 11:26 says that Moses was "considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt." It sounds to me like Moses embraced the reproach of Christ and was joined to Him in that sense.

You also said:

The Hebrew word for "elect" is "bachiyr." That word is used in Psalm 106:23 to describe Moses as God's "chosen." Old Testament saints like Moses were saved by faith. If they were saved, then they received eternal life and were elect people. People who don't receive eternal life are non-elect. There are only two categories: elect and non-elect. Folks in the Old Testament were either elect or non-elect.

 

BobRyan,

the presentation of Jesus to Nicodemus was towards being born again spiritually.

Jesus only used parables or representations in symbols towards his listening public.

Nicodemus was no exception.

Jesus spoke of being spiritually reborn.

(heres a clue for you to ponder. nicodemus was spiritually dead in a state of spiritual death..
to be born again. he must die to the world of death and be born spiritually again into a new world of life. this is the true meaning of "rebirth or "born (spiritually) again".)

from spiritual death to spiritual life.

but what did nicodemus continually focus on?..
the physical flesh. nothing to do with the spiritual rebirth that Jesus was referring to.

Jesus and nicodemus was speaking of two totally different subjects but using the same words. jesus mentioning spiritual death and rebirth. nicodemus correlating the physical fleshs death and rebirth.

anyway, the rebirth can only occur when the testator gives out the inheritance which was the sacrifice of His lifes blood and the distribution of his spirit after his resurrection from spiritual death.towards his sons.

if after the conversation between Jesus and nicodemus that Nicodemus was "to be" saved. It occurred at pentacost at the distribution of the inheritance of the spirit of Christ as it was Joined with those chosen as Christs "Bride".

no sooner.

you keep focusing on two gospels. first eternal life wasnt preached to the OT jews. It was a covenant between God and the Jews, pertaining to their physical survival and blessings. upon the arrival of Abraham. He became the father of faith, yet he didnt contain the "faith of Christ" in his lifetime nor in his body.
his life was portrayed by the physical blessing that God would bestow on abraham as well as his "seed" to follow. specifically that "seed" leading up to the birth of Jesus.

the spiritual promises towards Abraham was never received by abraham himself of eternal life, but to his "seed".

Namely towards "Christ and HIS BODY (children).

this is where we receive the fullness of the inheritance from the father. through abraham through Christ...listen carefully now... TO HIS CHOSEN GENERATION OF SONS. The children of JESUS.

A promise made to the "seed" of abrahams within his loins to the "children" of Christ

as his great great great...grandchildren were to be blessed, so was abraham, yet he still didnt have the resurrected spirit "within" him. this was yet to happen towards his "seed".

a promise unfulfilled towards his life in his lifetime. but fulfilled in his seed namely christ and his inheritors.

there are two gospels but it is not the OTJews and the NT Elect. the Jews lived under mosaic law which was never intended to save the flesh, but to make sin more sinful. they had no resurrected spirit. no grace. no chastisement towards the spirit.

we have the elect as receiving one gospel and in the next age. we have the elect preaching the same saved by faith through faith gospel to those from the second resurrection. this includes the OT Saints. now we allow abraham and moses and all others before Christ to hear the saving faith only found in Jesus christ..Through the Elect.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Heres something deep to think about. the elect is only preaching to one another in this age. the chosen out of the many.
but in the next age. the elect will preach to the "whosoever will". meaning all in the second resurrection will come, and be saved through the elects ministering towards them. from adam to the last man who was physically born. all through teh witnessing and ministering of the elect.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation is about the overcomers Bob. the Elect as they become one with the christ, then the lord. the son of God as well as the father.


Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As the Elect are one with the Christ. they will understand they are one with the lord. (Sitting on the throne judging)

One with the Son of God as well as one with the Father. the power and supplier of all blessings.
It is the Elect who inherit the blessing given to the Christ to be administered through his Body.

Joh 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

Christ the man identified as the Son of God and Son of Man. Also Identified himself with HIS Father as one. as he ascends, he is our Christ, lord, and Father, yet still in spirit. he is allowing HIS sons to be equals. and giving them the administration of distributing gifts from above.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

it is through the elect that all men will become perfected. in the next age.

so back to the main point.

no OT Jew was spiritually "saved" as joining the spirit of Christ with their souls until after the death and resurrection of the glorified spirit of Christ.

It was a promise to be fulfilled in the next age through the seed of Abraham. the sons of the Christ.

Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

the generation of the sons of the Christ.
The Elect

 

BobRyan,

How in this linear timeline can you state that the resurrected Spirit (inheritance) was given to Abraham when it wasnt available to be given?

this makes no rational common sense.

even when you read that abraham "had faith".

the true faith is a part of the resurrected spirit. meaning that the faith of Abraham wasnt that of the resurrected spirit of Christ nor was it righteous.

But God "recons" it as righteous. as God "recons" the faith of the carnal babe. God places the babe "in Christ" until the babe refuses accept this by refusing the chastising effects within grace.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

the OT saints didnt recceive the promise of Eternal Life which is "Christ in you, the hope of Glory".

lets move forward.. how about Hebrews chapter 12..

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

If you know what the end of faith is..its the knowledge of possessing eternal life. the finisher of OUR faith.. actually possessing the spirit of God within your BODY. no OT saint experienced this.

no Ot JEW "intimately knew the Christ Spirit".
this is only reserved for the relationship between himself and HIS children.

carnal babes only "know about" what God is doing. and this is contengent on God allowing them to carnally understand.
the Elect know the will of God and is an influencing part of IT. they must know intimately what is happenning in HIS will and be absorbed in His nature to actually fulfill it.

the OT jews "only" introduced the Christ spirit into this world of Death. they spoke of what he would accomplish in clouded visions and encrypted revelations.

I suggest you look at the resurrection of Christ in linear time when interpreting statements made in the OT.
God might have made promises. involved himself in the dealings of man and gave blessings.
but The OT were not covenented to receive the Christ Spirit. they lived under an old covenent under the law of moses.

not the law of the spirit as the Elect do under the new covenant.

I also suggest looking at who went into heaven before Christ. which is none. he is the firstfruits from the dead. the first to enter Heaven.

Enoch and Elijah might have had mysterious events occurred towards them, but the events didnt end with their entering heaven before the resurrected Christ. ever read

2Ch 21:12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

12 years after the elijah exerience..or correlate all experiences of the OT jews with one statement in hebrews..now read this slowly...

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

carnal babes see things afar off olike the OT jews did. The Elect hold in their possessions. they enter and live in the kingdom. the promises are real to them. not just words unfulfilled.

of course the promise..is the resurrected spirit of Christ that would dwell within them. not just a promise that one day they would receive it. (like in the next age to come)

cmon Bob,

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Jesus had to leave so that His spirit could be resurrected, glorified and multipled so that all his children could receive his seed(spirit)
who is supposed to come back and in spirit form.

the comforter, the spirit of truth. the Christ Spirit, The Son of God...all names referring to the spirit of Jesus Christ Himself so that we can become one with him. Jesus had to die to receive him in his Glorified state. the state of being Joined with Him as one.

Think linear time. no one who lived and physically died before the resurrection of Jesus could have received this spirit. they would be awaiting the second resurrection.

while the first resurrection would be occurring to the Elect while in their physical bodies..

 

did a study on who the elect were for a 'discussion' here earlier this year. It's on our website now

http://www.setterfield.org/elect.htm

Also, please note that Revelation 13:8 says Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation/creation of the world.

God is outside of time. He created it. It is not necessary for something to happen in time for it to be efficacious as far as God is concerned. Noah is listed as a preacher of righteousness. All righteousness is in Christ. Abraham was told to recount the stars, or tell their story. And then the promise 'so shall your seed be.' Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

God has been saving people since the beginning. Time is for our benefit, not His.

 

Truth does not have to be lengthy.

The elect are those who believe; those who believe in Jesus savingly are His elect. [Acts 2:21]

God has always known who would/will trust in Him as Savior. The Omniscient Lord God . . .

 

There is no test for election.

 

sorry but there a sure test for election.

simple as 1 2 3. very elementary.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

denying the Christ is to deny the grace of God in ones life to self and others. grace is the Chastising arm of the Father.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

think Job, or Joseph..they were given much only to have it all taken away. where and to whom did their loyalties lie. Who was sovereign in their life?.
or Paul. that strange thorn in his flesh. he asked for its removal, yet God left it in his body to persecute him. What did he do?. He glorified the persecution and understood that God was destroying the power of his prideful flesh. the power of the leviathin. which is the Devil.

so that is the presence of the spirit within, that professes without, that the spirit is operating on behalf of the life of the Son.

it is an ongoing battle between satan and God. with the believers soul as the prize. identify the battle in the flesh and the evidence is apparent for all someday to see.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

these statements of John is not about Jesus walking in his own flesh but his spirit returning from the dead and residing within OUR FLESH.

the spirit within is a resurrected spirit from the dead. it is a signifying expression.

Carnal babes state that Christ died for them. He arose and is in heaven..Up There somewhere..out there, over there.
but not within the followers body.

the mature or young mans understanding is that they have been buried with Christ. they themselves have got up on their cross and offered themselves as a sacrifice for others. or have died to their own sin as has been identified by the law warring within them.
receiving the resurrected spirit from the dead is the father choice and timing. yet to the outside observer. there is the expression of love and humility and mercy towards the brothers and the outward expression of the verbal witness.

the expression of the word oath.

Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

speaking of Jesus being accursed. that he is insufficient to be a propitiation for any mans sins. and the verbal expression of the indwelling spirit within. the proof within forces the confession without.

theres two tests. the outward persecution. the trial that is promised towards every son and the outward verbal agreement that the son and father are one. Jesus is Lord.

now the confession that Jesus is "lord" is such that within or during the life of the follower. the Spirit of the Lord has shown by evidence that the Spirit has been resurrected from death and resides within the Body of the believer and has shown at least in the individuals life that he has conquered over all enemies of unrighteousness.

both confession and successful triumphing over persecution comes by faith in the power and evidence received from the Father to the Son.

easy to explain. hard to find those who express it.

this might be hard to grasp today. but there are only two kinds of followers. those of the elect and those of the non elect.

or you could say there are the elect and everybody else.
If you know that the elect only speak knowledge with understanding. then listening to others speak of their understanding can easily place them in the correct and momentary category.

either Jesus is Lord and the Son of God and One with the Father. that he is the propitiator of all sin and conquerer over all enemies. as demonstrated by the unveiling of the believers understanding with indwelling evidence in their own bodies.

or he is not.

Me2