Who are the sheep and the goats?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, May 8, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I don't get it. The christians are not judged together with the unbelievers, they have their own judgement. When the christians are judged alone then who are the sheep which are also saved where Jesus says "you fed me"?
    Are these non-believers which helped others and behaved the right way? But this makes no sense. This sounds like all you have to do to be saved is be a nice guy and help others. :confused:
     
  2. gekko

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    ok... look at the parable of the sower...

    Jesus said "can you not understand this parable? how is it then you will beable to understand all parables?"

    so. the parable of the sower... is talking about true and false conversion.

    the sheep from the goats... the goats being false converts.

    same with the wheat and the tares...
    five foolish and five wise virgins the same...

    for more on the understanding of true and false conversion, and a more detailed explanation of the parable - go here: Living Waters Start -- then scroll down the the True/False Conversion section.
     
  3. Hope of Glory

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    The sheep and goats are both saved; the sheep are obedient and the goats are disobedient. As you have correctly pointed out, the saved and the unsaved are not judged together, and believe me, Jesus is not fooled by any sort of "false convert", for which there is no Scriptural basis.

    Numbers 18:17 But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy: thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD.

    Notice in this verse, in which we are given a picture of different animals, that goats are holy. I don't think that the Lord would use "holy" to describe anyone who is headed for the lake of fire.

    All of the parables in Matthew 13, including the parable of the tares, are referring to different kinds of saved people and are given in relation to the Kingdon; they are not given as showing the different between saved and unsaved or any sort of "false converts". (When discussing conversion, it's important to remember that only a saved person is capable of converting; many people mistakenly use "convert" and "saved" synonymously.)
     
  4. gekko

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    hope of glory...

    you havn't the biblical proof that there is no such thing as a false convert...

    why then does the bible mention: FALSE brethren, FALSE teachers, FALSE prophets... etc. ??
     
  5. Hope of Glory

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    Well, since it is impossible to prove a negative, there is no way to prove that there is no such thing as a "false convert". (Once again, I assume you are referring to someone who is saved.) But, absence of evidence either way, why would you assume there is? Don't you think that if there were that it would be worthy of mention?

    Now, as to false brethren, I have no doubts that there are those. The Bible tells us that the brethren are those who are obedient to God. There are plenty of saved people who put on false pretenses. They are false brethren.

    False prophets? Just turn on the TV and you can see all sorts of false prophets. Are they saved? I would not dare judge that, but based on their testimony, I assume they are. Go to any pentecostal church and you will see all sorts of false prophets.

    False teachers? They abound! How many people teach the doctrines of men to give themselves powere and prestige? Yet, they do claim Jesus as their savior.

    False converts? By definition, conversion is turning back to the right path, so there are plenty of those. But, if we are talking about saved people, there is not a single mention in the Bible of someone who claimed Jesus as savior who was lying about it. Why would you insert such an inference in Scripture where none exists?
     
  6. gekko

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    Judas was a type of false convert no?

    the disciples didn't even know he was going to betray Jesus. they thought he was going out to give money to the poor.

    false converts are very subtle. they are the ones that "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." - the stony ground hearer.

    notice it says "recieve the word with joy" yet they have no root. a false convert. a goat. a tare.
     
  7. gekko

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    is this making any sense xdisciplex??
     
  8. xdisciplex

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    I don't know.
    Isn't this called the judgement of the world?
    This is not the bema seat judgement which is for christians, or?

    This site says there is only 1 judgement for all!

    :eek:

    http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/bema.html

    :confused:
     
  9. gekko

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    well. i know that the verse says "for it is appointed a man once to die, and then face judgement"

    i think there is only one judgement for all. is there two different court rooms up there?

    is God a respecter of persons that he would have christians go through a different judgement then that of the unrighteous?

    if there were two judgements - that's just nonsense because if the unsaved and saved are separated at judgement... wouldn't that be determining already who goes where?

    unsaved go to one judgement
    saved go to another judgment

    which means:

    unsaved go to hell
    saved go to heaven

    in other words... there is only one judgement.
     
  10. SpiritualMadMan

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    As a Pre-Trib Pre-Millenial Rapture dude...

    I have to wonder if those that are caught up to be with the Lord will go through some form of "Bema" 'judgement' before the Marriage supper and return...

    For those that are caught up... If once to die is an absoluite... When do they die?

    If in fact they don't die... then perhaps they are not subject to the final judgement...

    Will people become believers during the Tribulation? I think so. Because some will be beheaded for their testimony...

    Is the final judgement after the Millenium? I believe so because it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have the final judgement and then later let satan out for a spell... (At the end of the thousand years)

    Could there be several lesser judgements and one final great White Throne Judgement?

    There is so much going on in the last days...

    So, much compressed into the Book of Revelation, Daniel and other passages that I believe that it will have to be 'lived' rather than prognosticated. [​IMG]

    Best to be "Ready Always" and not be caught sleeping...

    Then whether one judgement or twenty... makes no difference to you...

    Mike Sr.
     
  11. Doubting Thomas

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    The sheep are those ultimately saved. The goats are those ultimately lost.
     
  12. Rippon

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    All we like sheep -- the ALL are the elect who were covered by the blood of the Lord . No goats were covered by His sacrifice .
     
  13. Hope of Glory

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    If that's what the judgments were for (determining the destination), then that would make sense. But, the judgments are to judge people based on their works.

    What determines heaven or the lake of fire is whether or not you accept the Lord Jesus as your savior; whether you are saved or unsaved.
     
  14. gekko

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    im not even going to respond to what you've said HoG. because it is rediculous.

    judgements are to judge people based on their works?
     
  15. Hope of Glory

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    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Would you like more?

    Scriptures tell us that the judgments are to try our works, not to determine whether or not we have accepted the Lord Jesus as our savior.
     
  16. SpiritualMadMan

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    Not being Written in the Lamb's Book of Life is the Ultimate determining factor...

    Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    The final Judgement which includes a judging of Works is to satisfy Justice...

    To prove that God's Verdict is Proper and Just...

    IMHO, the Works are shown for what they are as the prosecutions evidence that the name shouldn't be in the Book of Life.

    Mike Sr.
     
  17. xdisciplex

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    Is it possible that some humans will neither go to hell nor to heaven but stay on earth for ever?
    I'm asking because of this verse here:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the
    .
    Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
    Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
    Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for
    Who are the nations?
    Christians? Or non-christians? :confused:
     
  18. gekko

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    well. thanks for clarifying that with scripture HoG.

    but dont you people realize that its not physical works. but spiritual works? "the law is spiritual" to the spiritual.

    accepting the Lord Jesus as our Savior is a spiritual work.

    we will be judged according to that - whether we've accepted him or not - John3:18 - those without Christ are condemned already.
     
  19. Eliyahu

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    Wow! Saved people are going to the Hell!
    Look at this
    Matt 25:41-
    ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels


    It is not the matter of discerning between Sheep and Wolves, but between Sheep and Goats, which means not-judging between Believers and Unbelievers(wolves), but judging between Believers and Fake Believers(goats) as the fake believers look the very same
    as born-again believers in human eyes!
     
  20. gekko

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    yes. exactly what Eliyahu said.

    there is a very much distinction (ba enlish i know) between goats and wolves.
     

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